Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby TLK_Kid » April 19th, 2018, 6:18 pm

Before I say anything: Yes, I know Kopa is not canon. Yes, I know Kiara is officially the firstborn in the movie universe. Yes, that is how Disney intends it to be. Now here's what I actually have to say.

I always just assumed it was Kiara, and I wouldn't have any problem accepting that, except...all the inconsistencies. :-o

The cubs do look a little different; I guess if you stretched it you could probably say they were the same cub, but that's debatable. But the part that really bugs me is their presentations. Fluffy/Kopa's is during the day, high noon or something like that, but Kiara's is at dawn, and there's no way you can possibly say those presentations are the same. Doesn't necessarily mean this is a different cub; it's just an annoying inconsistency Disney made. But I don't like accepting "It's a Disney movie, roll with it" as an explanation, so it forces me to think that maybe "Fluffy" actually is Kopa. Canon or not, it makes sense. As for what actually happened to Kopa if he did exist, I don't know. Maybe he was killed, maybe he left for some reason. With all the facts adding up like they do, I have to reasonably think a non-canon character is canon, because it's the only logical explanation I can find.

That said, I go back and forth all the time with my theories. In one fanfic I'll have Kopa as a 100% real character, in the next one he'll never have existed at all. So I guess I can be persuaded either way. :P
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Elton John » April 19th, 2018, 6:24 pm

It’s Kiara. Even if you don’t view the lion guard as canon it is still Kiara as far as Disney is concerned.

While the original creators intent was for the cub to be genderless with no real name it has been retconned since.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Panpardus » April 19th, 2018, 6:53 pm

Kiara is still officially the first-born regardless of how you view The Lion Guard. That said, I head-canon that Kion is actually the cub we see at the end of the first movie, and Kiara's ceremony happened earlier that same day as the start of Simba's Pride; it's just my own way of reconciling all the differences between the two scenes.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Elton John » April 19th, 2018, 6:58 pm

i feel the differences between the two scenes are irrelevant given tlk1 and tlk2 use different coloring styles.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby TLK_Kid » April 19th, 2018, 7:50 pm

Panpardus wrote:Kiara is still officially the first-born regardless of how you view The Lion Guard. That said, I head-canon that Kion is actually the cub we see at the end of the first movie, and Kiara's ceremony happened earlier that same day as the start of Simba's Pride; it's just my own way of reconciling all the differences between the two scenes.

That is a good theory. But then it presents the question of where Kion was throughout SP (which is a question I've really always had anyway.)

Another thought I just had: If Kiara and Kion were born in the same litter, why would Timon and Pumbaa be complaining about the cub being a girl, since they would have Kion there at the same time?
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby SimbasGuard » April 21st, 2018, 6:40 am

TLK_Kid wrote:Another thought I just had: If Kiara and Kion were born in the same litter, why would Timon and Pumbaa be complaining about the cub being a girl, since they would have Kion there at the same time?


At some point the only explanation is to certain things is that Kion and all of The Lion Guard is in fact a retcon. There is still much left to be explained as to how everything fits with Lion King 2, but I expect that to be tied up by the end of the series. I personally believe that Kiara and Kion are littermates. Given that they are the same size and the condescending way Kiara calls Kion Little Brother. Other episodes such as Lions of The Outlands have called this into question, but until we are given actual confirmation one way or the other I'll stick with my theory.

Perhaps Timon and Pumbaa were shocked that the female would be maid the heir to The Throne when a male heir was available.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby AnonLion » April 22nd, 2018, 7:09 am

As lame as it may sound I'm pretty sure the reason why the presentation of Fluffy and Kiara were different (making it seem as if they were different cubs) is because the writers of TLK hadn't thought there'd be a sequel to the movie. So I wouldn't give that too much thought.

The moment we got confirmed that TLG took place in the time lapse of SP it was expected we'd try to fill the holes of how Kion's character fits in. Personally I think that at the beginning of SP Nala is already pregnant with Kion. Though it's common lions have more than one cub per litter I don't think Kiara and Kion are littermates, because if they were I don't see any plausible explanation as to why he doesn't appear in the first half of SP with Kiara. As to why he doesn't appear in the second half of SP I'm going to trust TLG writers and see how the series ends, hopefully it'll all end up in a satisfying way.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby DGFone » April 22nd, 2018, 11:23 pm

So I personally don't care much about who is canon. The Lion King was never intended to have a sequel, so it can be argued that Six New Adventures is equally canon to Simba's Pride, which is equally canon to The Lion Guard. So call it a cheap cop-out, but depending on the context, either can be canon, although it does mean that 2/3 of these cases, Kiara is the "fluffy" from the end of The Lion King.

But seriously...
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Elton John » April 22nd, 2018, 11:43 pm

what is a tanabi
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby TheLionPrince » April 23rd, 2018, 2:24 am

Tanabi was a name given to the cub of Simba and Nala at the end of the first film. He was created by Joshua Templin in a fanfiction titled The Tales of Tanabi that became popular during the early years of the fandom.
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