Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby tigerlover » January 7th, 2016, 2:41 am

Killjoy Dixon wrote:^ If you aren't going to actually contribute to the discussion, please do not post in a topic. I take it from that smiley that you're a Kopa fan... that's fine, but still he's not the first born, or canon, and that's that. TLG even further proved it by saying that Kion is their second cub, and Kiara's younger sibling.

I now don't know who is the first born. :?
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Squeely » January 7th, 2016, 2:46 am

tigerlover wrote:I now don't know who is the first born. :?

Canonically, it's Kiara.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby PridelandsPhantom » March 16th, 2016, 11:31 pm

Oh boy, this is adding gasoline to a fire doing this topic :dramaqueen: First of all, even though I consider Kopa cannon in the wider scope of TLK universe, the fact is that TLK creators consider Kopa only to be cannon in TLK6NA, When TLK was made, the cub at the end of the movie was referred to as Fluffy and not given a gender. The creators did not think TLK would be the huge success and well force it is today. I think Fluffy gave most people an impression the cub was a male since Fluffy looked like Simba as a newborn cub. Let me just say this when SP came out even though I was young I still thought "Why is there two births? Why are you (Kiara) being born twice?" Officially, Kiara is the firstborn cub of Simba and Nala. I think it was a moronic move to say that Fluffy is Kiara when they do not look alike. For SP they should have just said left Fluffy's fate alone or made Kiara look more like the cub at the end of TLK.

Now outside of cannon, I believe the cub at the end of TLK was intended to be male by the creators who changed their mind by the time SP came around and decided to make it based on a female lead. However, the idea of Kopa in TLK6NA or Tanabi as COTPL states is not really that far fetched of an idea. I believe in Kopa being cannon making him the first-born cub of Simba and Nala. No, that doesn't make it official as Kiara is the official first-born cub, but I believe the idea of Kion came from the fans wanting Simba and Nala to have a son based off the feeling that the cub born at the end of the TLK leaned towards being a male (Kopa or Tanabi in some cases).

Most people are not going to read TLK6NA or the comics so the movie verse will be the official timeline and cannon. This being said the cubs of Simba are Kiara (first-born) and then Kion.

If you take TLK6NA, comics, and other sources (such as a German version where Kopa is present) then it is Kopa, Kiara, and then Kion. In the earliest drafts of SP, Kiara had a brother so this also shows that TLK universe has been moving towards Simba having a son for quiet a while.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Rollo » March 17th, 2016, 1:54 pm

Just throwing my two cents in here, but please remember that The Lion King was not expected to be a success. One of the most well-known facts about this film is that it was the 'B' movie to Pocahontas, which was intended to be the big hit that summer. It was only when they released the first teaser trailer (which I believe was just the entirety of the Circle of Life) that they saw that people had an interest in the movie. By the time a teaser trailer is released, the film usually has just under a year before its release. While the creators could've predicted that TLK would be a success they would've never imagined it'd be anywhere near the extent that it was, i.e being quite possibly the greatest animated film of all time.

My point is that they probably wouldn't have had ANY plans for a sequel considering Disney sequels were not common at the time. So when they wrote the ending with 'Fluffy', they figured it wouldn't be important that Fluffy was Kopa or Kiara. At that point a sequel would be a distant prospect. The cub at the end of the movie isn't Kopa or Kiara or any character at all, it's just a tool used in a scene to highlight the moral of the film: no matter what, the Circle of Life goes on.

I take all movies after the original with a pinch of salt. I like SNA because it's the only place I can get information on Mufasa and Scar, so I can't really agree with it being non-canon even if it actually is. I'd just call it my fan canon. 'Canonically', though, in terms of the films, Kiara is the first born.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby PridelandsPhantom » March 18th, 2016, 6:08 am

I agree that the creators didn't think the cub at the end of the film would serve any importance other than showing that Simba was going through the Circle of Life by he and Nala having their own cub and restoring things to normal. Most people felt that the Lion King would be too dark a film for most people to take their children to considering Mufasa is murdered and Scar a crazed dictator. The mess about the books including TLK6NA is that the cub had no official gender nor did the creator believe there was a need to give the cub one. I think the general assumption among most is that the cub was most likely male considering it resembled Simba as a newborn cub especially with the ear rims.

I have read about the Lion King being the "B" film that year and its very interesting.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby SlayerOfLight » March 18th, 2016, 12:42 pm

lol people in 2016 still discussing this which is already obvious
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Simba_Lion » June 22nd, 2016, 10:08 am

In my opinion, the cub is Kopa. Firstly because we can read about him in the Six New Adventures book (for me this is canon), secondly, this cub looks totally different than the newborn Kiara (ear rims, for example) and thirdly, the birth ceremonies are not the same.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Chavratheserval » July 1st, 2016, 8:01 am

^I know it's your opinions and all, you think Kopa is first or whatever. But he's not canon, probably never will be. In Canon, Kiara will always, whether you like it or not, be the first child. No matter what people tell say or show you. Kiara is the first child. Anything other than that is fan fiction. But since we're sticking to facts...it's Kiara. BTW, I do actually like Kopa, even if he isn't canon. ;)
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby DGFone » July 2nd, 2016, 7:40 pm

The Lion King was never meant to have any sort of sequel, ironically enough probably letting it help become a better movie. This also meant, though, that a lot of things were never fully developed, such as the identity of "fluffy", the cub seen at the very end of the movie.

As far as Disney is concerned, Kopa was in fact the first born. Until TLK 2 came out, that is, when it suddenly became Kiara. Then you could technically argue whether its Kopa or Kiara who are first, but we can all tell that based on the Lion Guard, Disney likes the idea of Kiara being the first.

And it all came down from a movie that wasn't considered good enough to think of a sequel for.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Squeely » July 26th, 2016, 2:32 pm

DGFone wrote:And it all came down from a movie that wasn't considered good enough to think of a sequel for.

Well, not only that, but at the time TLK was being worked on, making sequels to their movies wasn't really something Disney did. The Rescuers Down Under came closer to breaking even than really making a profit, so Disney had likely thrown the idea of potential sequels out the window. It wasn't until The Return of Jafar, originally intended as a TV special, saw surprising success as a direct-to-video, that Disney realized they could make a good profit releasing cheaper-made sequels. Return of Jafar was released only a month or two before TLK; far too late into the film's production for anyone to change much of anything.
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