new episodes of tlg dropping on disneynow this monday

[Panpardus]

[quote="Farren"]
I really didn't like what they did to Scar in this show and was extremely happy to leave that plot behind. Also, I do not buy the "Scar got his scar from a snake bite and the venom made him eviiiil!" theory for a second. Nope. Even the water buffalo story from TLK6NA makes more sense than that -- and that never made any sense either. I still think Mufasa did it. Fight me.[/quote]
I actually thought the lingering Scar arc was dropped a bit too abruptly, but I can't think of a way to have woven it into the story more. Also, I'm pretty sure if you read into it a bit more, the show's not explicitly saying the venom made Scar evil; he clearly already had resentment towards his brother for whatever reason and was "intrigued" (his words) by the strange outsider lion who proposed usurping Mufasa before the venom was even in his system. Plus we've seen through conflicts Kion and Kiara have had earlier in the series about how the guard leader can easily think they're more powerful than the actual monarch and know what's best for the kingdom (see "Just Can't Wait to be Queen"); it's not hard to imagine Mufasa and Scar going through similar struggles in their youth and never mutually resolving those issues.

If anything, the venom just exacerbated any negative emotions -- and there are actually at least anecdotal reports of people surviving mildly venomous snake bites or taking homeopathic medicines that use proteins from certain types of snake venoms, and in both cases end up suffering mood swings and such, including heightened levels of irritability that ruined personal relationships.

[quote="KnyazKion"]
This is a feminist fiction of the late 20th century. In nature there are no gays, lesbians, queer and etc. Because they hate men, so they try to destroy the normal family.[/quote]
That's blatantly not true; I'm not a moderator but please don't spout nonsense. Regardless of how you feel about it, there's numerous (as in hundreds in some species) documented examples of same-sex couplings and interactions happening in nature across the animal kingdom, including between lions (usually males) and especially with birds, so it's a thing that happens.

A lot.

(Birds can be really gay, to the point where life-long same-sex coupling is common in a number of species. Here's the relevant starting Wikipedia page about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexua ... and_groups)

[quote="Ninclow"]If Beau Black is who I think it is, (the guy who wrote the original version of Kion's Lament), then yeah, totally. The last couple of songs from Kion was NOT sung by Max Charles. I suspect he is at a stage of his voice change where his voice cracks up a lot. If not, they just made a REALLY bad call in trying to make Kion sound older.[/quote]
Beau Black is the show's main songwriter, and yes, you hear him on the full version of "Kion's Lament" (which is called "It Is Time" on the soundtrack album). It was just a really jarring transition.

Also...
[quote="Ninclow"][quote="KionIsGay"]
Using real life statistics in regards to a cartoon about a lion with a magical roar, okay. I don't care about the statistics buddy, I care about representation. I also care about all the love interests being late-game additions, only one of which was even remotely well-developed.[/quote]

Then who do you think Kion should have ended up with? I mean - saying you want representation is just - pardon me - silly. The Lion Guard is not the right place to promote diversity. Do you know what show was really close at making a diverse character, but didn't? Fuller House, on Netflix. I mean, they really went out of their way to avoid getting it right. Why would you expect a show with such a young target audience as The Lion Guard to give you representation? What would you have them do, marry Kion and Bunga or something?[/quote]
Like "Kion Is Gay" responded, homosexual relationships aren't explicitly any more "adult" than hetero ones; heck, I don't doubt that a lot of kids watching the show probably come up in a two-parent same-sex household and/or might realize they're gay/lesbian/etc. themselves within a few years if they haven't already; it would just be normal life for them. Moreover, the whole central theme of The Lion Guard as a series is to promote diversity; Kion picks his interspecies (obvious racial diversity metaphor) team members over opting for other lions because he figures their different strengths can be just as effective if not more so if utilized effectively, and -- granted, the writing isn't always great with this -- the show does go out of its way to establish that this theme is a good and defensible one. So I don't see why it would've necessarily been too much to expect "diversity" from the show in terms of sexual orientations simply on the grounds of "It's a kids show", especially when there's other kids shows out there (that don't take themselves anywhere nearly as seriously as The Lion Guard takes itself) that feature queer characters and couples without making a huge deal of it.

[Farren]

[quote="Panpardus"]If anything, the venom just exacerbated any negative emotions -- and there are actually at least anecdotal reports of people surviving mildly venomous snake bites or taking homeopathic medicines that use proteins from certain types of snake venoms, and in both cases end up suffering mood swings and such, including heightened levels of irritability that ruined personal relationships.[/quote]

Venom aside (and I do see your point there) it doesn't seem at all realistic that a cobra's fang (also, how did only one hit?) would've caused such a scar. You'd have two puncture wounds, bite marks. Same problem I always had with the water buffalo theory -- an animal that size probably would've gouged out an eyeball at the very least. Scar's scar, realistically speaking, looks like it came from a claw. I mean, I can accept a snake bite as making "sense" in TLG's world seeing as there are already so many things that don't make sense but I can't accept it as being the official history for Scar. I really don't see anything in this show as canon and prefer to view it as some kind of alternative universe. It's more enjoyable that way, in my opinion.

The new CGI movie suggests Mufasa is the one that gave Scar his scar during a challenge so Disney already has conflicting "canon" theories on this. But the remake, along with the Broadway musical and TLG, are their own things and fans can choose to accept the changes/additions or ignore them. For me the only 100% canonical material comes from the original animated movie itself. Ten years from now they'll probably come out with something new that retcons all these previous theories anyway, haha. If I'm being perfectly honest, there are fan comics and stories concering Scar and Mufasa's past that are much more believable. Unless Disney ever makes some grand (unrelated to TLG and hopefully hand-drawn) prequel I'm still of the mindset that the history between the two brothers, and the origin of Scar's scar, is unknown and up to personal interpretation.

You are 100% correct about homosexual relationships being perfectly natural and occurring in many species, by the way. I wasn't gonna say anything but that comment about there "being no gays in nature" made me facepalm. Thank you for pointing out facts. I'm not a "shipper" so I never really cared about who would end up with who, but there's absolutely no reason they couldn't have a homosexual relationship in this show. Many cartoons are more progressive and inclusive these days (Steven Universe, The Loud House, etc), as they should be, and there is nothing "adult" about it. Kids have been exposed to straight romance in Disney movies since forever, gay romance is no different.

[KnyazKion]

[quote="Panpardus"][quote="Farren"]

[quote="KnyazKion"]
This is a feminist fiction of the late 20th century. In nature there are no gays, lesbians, queer and etc. Because they hate men, so they try to destroy the normal family.[/quote]
That's blatantly not true; I'm not a moderator but please don't spout nonsense. Regardless of how you feel about it, there's numerous (as in hundreds in some species) documented examples of same-sex couplings and interactions happening in nature across the animal kingdom, including between lions (usually males) and especially with birds, so it's a thing that happens.
[/quote][/quote]
What I said is not insulting, it is the complete truth. There is no homosexuality in nature. I don't care who you share your bed with. And Wikipedia is not a credible source.

[TTB-Kun]

[Elton John]

wew

i mean

wew

captain america is my best friend and we both enjoy punching hitler together. It is the complete truth. I said it on the internet so it must be true.

[Ninclow]

[quote="Panpardus"]Like "Kion Is Gay" responded, homosexual relationships aren't explicitly any more "adult" than hetero ones; heck, I don't doubt that a lot of kids watching the show probably come up in a two-parent same-sex household and/or might realize they're gay/lesbian/etc. themselves within a few years if they haven't already; it would just be normal life for them. Moreover, the whole central theme of The Lion Guard as a series is to promote diversity; Kion picks his interspecies (obvious racial diversity metaphor) team members over opting for other lions because he figures their different strengths can be just as effective if not more so if utilized effectively, and -- granted, the writing isn't always great with this -- the show does go out of its way to establish that this theme is a good and defensible one. So I don't see why it would've necessarily been too much to expect "diversity" from the show in terms of sexual orientations simply on the grounds of "It's a kids show", especially when there's other kids shows out there (that don't take themselves anywhere nearly as seriously as The Lion Guard takes itself) that feature queer characters and couples without making a huge deal of it.[/quote]

To clarify, I am not saying homosexuality is in any way unnatural. I have friends who are homosexual, my sister is lesbian, another friend of mine is transgender, and of course it's natural to be either, but my point is, The Lion Guard is not the place to go for representation. It just isn't the right place for it, not because it's somehow something inherently wrong with The Lion Guard giving representation to sexual minorities, but because it's not the sort of show that does. It'd be like going into a toy store looking for new parts to your car. Also - isn't the q-word kinda a slur?

[Elton John]

Why isn’t representation important in The Lion Guard?

In the first movie, 6 of the voice actors were black and one was latino. Many of the singing voices provided were from black americans or Africans themselves. Sure, you had a lot of white actors, but for a big budget animated Hollywood movie this was a huge step above Aladdin which had mostly white actors playing Middle Eastern characters.

For animal characters its a bit different than humans. I would prefer all tlk characters to be voiced by black or african actors but im not going to get upset if they cast a few white people....

I mean representation comes in many forms. TLG having gay couples is no big deal as gay animals exist irl and its not like disney would put rough male on male lion sex in the show.

[zerodix]

well, we have a gay couple Timon and Pumbaa, with an adopted son Bunga.. Tiifu and Zuri didn't have male mates so ship them if u like.. the show is aimed at preschoolers, they aren't thinking about gender/orientation at this age. I liked seeing strong female characters, like Fuli, Rani and Jasiri.. 40 years ago, most female characters were helpless damsels in distress that had to be resqued by their strong princes..

[Elton John]

Timon and Pumbaa.... I dunno ... they could be gay but maybe not? Remember, TLK was released when two heterosexual men living together didn’t raise any eyebrows.

Its an older example but the movie ‘the odd couple’ was about two straight men living together. The movie became a TV series which recast the two leads and decades later the movie got a sequel which starred the original lead actors.

Then you have shows like perfect strangers and bosom buddies and while the two male leads in bb crossdressed it was played for laughs.

My point is that the people who wrote the firstmovie likely didnt intend on timon and pumbaa being seen as gay because two straight men living together at that time was a regular thing.

[Panpardus]

So the mystery has been partially solved: Aaron Daniel Jacob, who's done voice work on other Disney cartoon series like Phineas and Ferb and Sofia the First was for some reason Kion's singing voice. You can see it listed on his resume: https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/bd9a42_e ... 17778f.pdf Why they hired him, I still have no clue; maybe it was just logistics?

[quote="Ninclow"]
To clarify, I am not saying homosexuality is in any way unnatural. I have friends who are homosexual, my sister is lesbian, another friend of mine is transgender, and of course it's natural to be either, but my point is, The Lion Guard is not the place to go for representation. It just isn't the right place for it, not because it's somehow something inherently wrong with The Lion Guard giving representation to sexual minorities, but because it's not the sort of show that does. It'd be like going into a toy store looking for new parts to your car. Also - isn't the q-word kinda a slur?[/quote]
I don't see why simply presenting a same-sex romantic relationship as matter-of-factly as they presented any of the couplings seen in the show would be outside of the purview of the show. Especially considering that this is a little kids demographic, they don't necessarily need to complicate things by showing in-universe homophobia or having a character come out, just treat it as Kion has a crush on/ends up with Baliyo, no extra muss or fuss about it.

Also, I know queer used to be a slur; I think use of it varies greatly depending on generation, country, and racial demographics. I'm only using it as a catchall umbrella term, which I have seen people of my generation (younger) within the relevant community using and defining it as. Apologies if it offends someone's sensibilities.

[quote="KnyazKion"]
What I said is not insulting, it is the complete truth. There is no homosexuality in nature. I don't care who you share your bed with. And Wikipedia is not a credible source.[/quote]

I never said it was insulting, I said it was nonsense. Respectfully miss me with the "Wikipedia isn't a credible source" argument; anyone who says that simply doesn't know how to properly use the website to find information. The page I linked has 120 references; a variety scientific studies, books, and news articles about the relevant information, many of which are readily accessible by just clicking on their hyperlink. I suggest you take a look at just a few of those to understand why your statement is buffalo dung.

[quote="Farren"][quote="Panpardus"]If anything, the venom just exacerbated any negative emotions -- and there are actually at least anecdotal reports of people surviving mildly venomous snake bites or taking homeopathic medicines that use proteins from certain types of snake venoms, and in both cases end up suffering mood swings and such, including heightened levels of irritability that ruined personal relationships.[/quote]

Venom aside (and I do see your point there) it doesn't seem at all realistic that a cobra's fang (also, how did only one hit?) would've caused such a scar. You'd have two puncture wounds, bite marks. Same problem I always had with the water buffalo theory -- an animal that size probably would've gouged out an eyeball at the very least. Scar's scar, realistically speaking, looks like it came from a claw. I mean, I can accept a snake bite as making "sense" in TLG's world seeing as there are already so many things that don't make sense but I can't accept it as being the official history for Scar. I really don't see anything in this show as canon and prefer to view it as some kind of alternative universe. It's more enjoyable that way, in my opinion.
[/quote]
I mean, given that it's all cartoons and the logic isn't always internally consistent even within a single movie/program, I don't fret much with parsing out what's "canon" or "really" happened too much when they've already said "This is what happened." If that's the explanation they want to put as official, fine, it's their story. But you're right, a cobra bite wouldn't leave a scar like the ones seen in the show.