My Lion King Forum

No, I don't have a funny GIF or animation. Just another one of my random rants again.


I noticed that A LOT of fans complain that Simba was a grouch and that the creators did not do a good job in explaining WHY. One popular theory that I see all the time is that supposedly Zira killed Kopa. Now, this is not a Kopa bashing thread. I just can't stand it when fans come up with fanon and SWEAR by it. Here are some of my observations which I try to keep linear to the films which I count as canon (actually, only the first one. I am just having fun with this).

1. Simba was still psychologically traumatized. He was betrayed by his uncle and lost his father in the most unfair way possible. The nightmare he had is a common symptom in people who have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Think of the soldiers who come back from war alive and what they go through when they come back. That [censored] never leaves you, even with councelling. Even if Simba was welcomed back and got his rightful place back in the Pride lands, this trauma still follows him on a characterization level, I find that fascinating and it makes TLK: SP just a little bit interesting.

2. Simba did not receive 'proper' training on how to be a King. We all know that Mufasa had anger problems but I doubt he was like Simba who was pretty much overreacting. Sure, he was being a parent by being overprotective with Kiara but he did take it too far, i.e. not letting her hunt and wanting to put her in a bubble. If Mufasa had lived (we would not have had a movie for one, I know), I think he would have taught Simba how to be gentle at the same time teaching him how to be firm. It was like he was trying to overcompensate. Look at the scene in TLK 1 when we thought Simba was going to get an asswhooping like most of us did from our parents in those days. Instead, we got a heartwarming father/son moment.

3. After being betrayed by a close relative, I don't blame Simba for having 'control issues'.

I always thought of Simba's lack of training as a good thing: Without Mufasa, Simba doesn't have anyone who can tell him reliably "you are ready as a good king now". So in Simba's eyes - he's never ready. He can never get to Mufasa's level, because let's face it, the way he remembered Mufasa was through a highly idealized and worshiping way. Therefore, Simba constantly seeks to find flaws in his system that he can improve and become a better king.

And as for it being a handicap: Rafiki is still around, Zazu is still around, and most of the pride is still around. They can always help Simba when he doesn't feel like he can make a good decision, and I don't see why he won't allow himself to be guided by his friends and family.

So while I don't have a good reason as to why Simba is such an idiot in SP without diving out of canon, I don't think that a lack of training would harm Simba.

If you want the real reason (i.e. Word of God [creators]) then here it is: The SP development team wanted Simba to make mistakes and make the audience cringe, wishing for the Simba of TLK 1to return in SP. To be truthful, I think they went overboard with that, by making us cringe too much, and for the wrong reasons. - Along the lines of "Ooh, Simba would never do that!" instead of "Ooh, Simba, why did you do that?"

Well, I am one of those who don't have a grudge for Simba's "grouchiness" and understands him. Simba was very traumatized since childhood and for years, he lived with his guilt of Mufasa's murder being his fault and for a child at start, that is very scary. As an adult, it's still scary to live with that in your memory and not easy to cope with. His own uncle was about to murder him the same way into death and admits Mufasa's murder being his fault and not Simba. Of course, he was really shocked emotionally and enraged by the fact that him as the "cause" for Mufasa's death scarred him for life. I personally believe that the reason for Simba's anger in SP is shown well in his nightmare. Even though he defeated Scar, he still could not save his father from death and it's traumatizing to relive that guilt you were experiencing back then. Scar morphs into Kovu and he kills Simba the same way and wakes up in horror. I will bring up Kovu's scar from the nightmare because even though he doesn't get it until later in the film, his scar is foreshadowing and it represents Simba's distrust in Kovu because he doesn't want to face another horrible lion just like Scar was and certainly, not another traumatizing past repeating again during his adulthood. Like in the first movie, Mufasa admits to Simba that he was scared of losing him and Simba infers that even kings get scared. In SP, Simba is now in Mufasa's position as a responsible king and father to Kiara and HE was scared of losing his daughter and is scared of his past repeating again to even towards someone he loves. I believe his anger towards Kovu and the outsiders can be understood.

The Kopa theories never added up for me, but that's for another day in another thread. Other than that, I don't think these are hypothetical reasons for Simba's behavior. I think you pretty much nailed it with possible exception to the part about training to be king which I'm not sure matters one way or the other.

After the traumatic life he lived up until becoming king, it only seems natural that he would have trust issues. They might have slightly overdone his overprotective side, but overall, I really don't have a problem with his behavior in the film. When I look and break down the plot, I have more issues with everything falling perfectly into line for Kiara despite her somewhat poor judgement than I do with Simba.

Simba is the only Disney character with a mental illness: PTSD. Think about it!

[quote="TheBlackCatCrossing"]Simba is the only Disney character with a mental illness: PTSD. Think about it! [/quote]

Woah! I guess we always knew that, but never actually put it into words, After all, his running away, the nightmares after he came back - they all point to PDST. And this is why TLK is a great movie, even for Disney: they tried a lot riskier than most animated movies will dare.

I like that explanation for his d***********y. It makes him a complex character. In the first film he is very idealized in his views. This shows another flawed side to him. And Zira: a classic case of erotomania.

I've never seen someone bash Simba for his attitude, but anyway, I honestly agree. He had a hard childhood, and he doesn't want Kiara to turn out that way possibly? I've never been sure, but eh.

well, i'm one of those people who feels sorry for simba,
there are probably several reasons why he has those strange grouch episodes:

1. the loss of his dad
2. not being properly trained
3. scar bugging him
4. zira bugging simba during sp
5. a nightmare about his dad and kovu

and sure, you may have your own opinions about what was going on
but for whatever reason there of
scar and zira are both bad outlanders
that were mean to kovu and simba
and they shouldnt have been mean to the both of them in the first place

5. He's going through a mid-life crisis.

6. The pressures of ruling a kingdom.

7. He knew he wasn't the king Mufasa was.