My Lion King Forum

So I caught the last of Simba's Pride this morning on Disney Cinemagic channel. I mean I've seen this movie so many times now, but this just peaked my interest a little. When Vitani stands up for Kiara against her mother, and Zira's infamous line:

"If you will not fight, the you will die as well."

This line. It makes me think. After this one line all of the other outlanders start rolling their eyes and muttering under their breath, and decide to agree with Vitani, thus joining Simba.

What I wonder is WHY. Why did this particular thing spark of a rebellion from Zira's previously faithful group of Outlanders? Is it because she threatened her own daughter? What do you think?

I think personally its like, from their point of view:
Well if she'll threaten her own daughter then she doesn't care about any of us.

I doubt that the Outlanders were with Zira 100% of the time. They just follow her because she keeps them alive in the Outlands as long as they prove useful to her. But I think that seeing Vitani, Zira's own daughter, switch sides made them reconsider their positions.

All they want to do is live a better life. Zira fed them lies that Simba is to blame for everything and that his death will make things much better. But when Zira threatens Vitani with death, I think they realized that Zira is not entirely whole in the head, and that what she told them before might not necessarily be correct. In order to get their goal of a better life, the Oulanders had to switch sides after that. Follow your enemy, who shows reason, or continuing following your current leader, who's clearly nuts?

i think Zira forced them to join her.

[quote="DGFone"]I doubt that the Outlanders were with Zira 100% of the time. They just follow her because she keeps them alive in the Outlands as long as they prove useful to her. But I think that seeing Vitani, Zira's own daughter, switch sides made them reconsider their positions.

All they want to do is live a better life. Zira fed them lies that Simba is to blame for everything and that his death will make things much better. But when Zira threatens Vitani with death, I think they realized that Zira is not entirely whole in the head, and that what she told them before might not necessarily be correct. In order to get their goal of a better life, the Oulanders had to switch sides after that. Follow your enemy, who shows reason, or continuing following your current leader, who's clearly nuts?[/quote]
You took these exact words right out of my mouth.

Before the fight:



Then Kovu and Kiara show up, and it's 16v17. Those aren't good odds.

Then Vitani switches sides, and it's 15v18.

Seems like a no-brainer to me. A fight that cannot be won is not worth fighting.

When Simba banished Zira and her followers, the outlands became the life they knew, and Zira was the queen, she was the most brutal and the strongest so no one dared cross her. When it came to the fight they got an option they never had before. The option to go home and I am willing to be they would have been thinking about it. But when Zira throws that line down it was the limit for them all, there was no point in fighting anymore they had a free pass home they didnt have the vengeful blood zira had from losing Scar.

Zira is like that friend everyone has. They bend and break the rules and your cringe and wince but go along but there comes a point enough is enough and you 'turn on them' and get them to stop

That should mainly be the fact that Vitani was the first who switched sides. Being Zira's daughter, she wouldn't leave her mother for anything if her ways were right.
Besides, by telling Vitani what she did, Zira told more about herself. She proved that she doesn't care even for her child, that war is what's the most important to her. So, how could anyone still expect of her to care about the rest of the pride? Her lionesses could easily notice that.

[quote="KingKivuli"]When Simba banished Zira and her followers, the outlands became the life they knew, and Zira was the queen, she was the most brutal and the strongest so no one dared cross her. When it came to the fight they got an option they never had before. The option to go home and I am willing to be they would have been thinking about it. But when Zira throws that line down it was the limit for them all, there was no point in fighting anymore they had a free pass home they didnt have the vengeful blood zira had from losing Scar.

Zira is like that friend everyone has. They bend and break the rules and your cringe and wince but go along but there comes a point enough is enough and you 'turn on them' and get them to stop[/quote]


Couldn't agree more

They probably were forced by Zira to fight against Simba and perhaps they just waited for something big to happen and Vitani was the one to do it. They realized it was worthless to keep fighting and that Zira is nothing without them.

I think the Outsider lionesses decided to join after Zira's threat because they finally figured out she lost her mind.