My Lion King Forum

This kinda came up to me one day randomly, but I feel like giving it here:

In Simba's Pride, all the Pridelanders knew that the Outlanders had a grudge against Simba, and would not hesitate in terms of murdering others. The Outlanders (specifically Zira) train Kovu to infiltrate the Prielanders and kill Simba from the inside.

So my biggest flaw with the plan is this: The Outlanders settled to being neighbors with the Pridelandrs, thus serving as a constant reminder that they hated each other's guts.

The flaw I see here is this: couldn't the Outlanders leave somewhere else and train Kovu anyways, then he can walk in as a "rogue". He won't have to suffer the immediate hostility just for being an Outsider, and would make his job of killing Simba much easier.

So, what do you guys think?

......Then he wouldn't have met Kiara...

^ They did not originally plan for him to meet Kiara anyway, so I do not really see your point.

It would have worked but, maybe there would not have been enough food or water to survive on if they moved somewhere else. We are already told in the movie that conditions are not great in the Outlands and maybe they would settle for that, rather than move somewhere else and have even less resources, I mean, I probably would.

And I also think that maybe Simba would have known that Scar would have a successor, and would have been cautious about it anyway. I mean, Kovu does at least resemble Scar, even without the Scar.

[quote="FlipMode"]^ They did not originally plan for him to meet Kiara anyway, so I do not really see your point.[/quote]

I thought of something similar: Why couldn't the outsiders just move their pride somewhere that had a good supply of food and water? Yeah, Zira wants revenge so she wants to stay closer to Simba, but I would think the other lionesses might want to move to more suitable conditions, with or without Zira. But who knows, maybe they really did have nowhere else to go

It seems to me as if they had nowhere else to go. We know that the area beyond the gorge is Desert. Yes, there is jungle beyond that, but I don`t think the Outlanders knew about that, let alone ever tried to cross the Desert. Plus, in order to even get to it, they would have to march clear through the Pridelands, and it is implied in the movie that the punishment for an Outlander who enters the Pridelands is death. It would be a very risky operation.

We know nothing of what lies beyond the Outlands, and the only other place shown in either movie is the Elephant Graveyard, and we all know the living conditions there aren`t the greatest. Just look at the Hyenas, they were starving..

Anyway, yes, it would have been easier if the Outlanders had not lived right next to the Pridelands and trained Kovu somewhere else. If Simba had not known he was Ziras son and Scars heir, it would have been much easier for Kovu to get close to Simba, like the OP said.

But it seems to me as if the Outlanders had no choice and nowhere else to go.

I think Zira purposely stayed there to be a martyr and to stay close enough to spy on the Pridelands.

There is one little detail that is being overlooked here. Remember that Zira didn't come up with the plan for Kovu to get close to Kiara in order to be accepted into Simba's pride so he could kill Simba, until after Kovu and Kiara had met as cubs, there for, Simba would have already known about Kovu, and assuming Simba wouldn't forget Kovu's looks, I don't think Kovu could have passed off as being just another random rogue. Yes, there is a chance that Zira might have thought up this plan without Cub Kovu not purposefully implying it to her as was done in the film, but as far as the plot of the film went, I think she was just planning on training Kovu and the rest of her pride, to take over the Pride Lands by force alone.

^ Yes, but in the scene where Simba comes to rescue Kiara from the Outlands, Zira says "You haven`t met my son, Kovu?"

Zira mentions that he was the last born cub before they were exiled, which means that Kovu was just a baby.. Simba had not met Kovu again after that, and so he had no way of knowing who he was if Zira hadn`t told him. So if Zira hadn`t shown up in that scene, Simba would have just met what to him would appear to be a random cub, not Ziras son/Scars heir.

That is possible, although I think Zira was stating that just to get under Simba's skin more than anything. It could be possible that Simba didn't recognize Kovu as being Zira's son, although I'm sure he knew that the cub wasn't part of his pride, thus was an Outlander cub. Again too, if that whole scene hadn't have happened, Zira might not have thought up the plot of having Kovu be a part of Simba's pride in the first place.