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My Lion King Forum • View topic - Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS
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Re: Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS

PostPosted: March 28th, 2017, 3:08 am
by TheLionPrince

Re: Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS

PostPosted: March 28th, 2017, 5:29 am
by Azdgari
Per the Fragile States Index rating, the travel ban countries (excluding Iraq, as you pointed out) rank as follows:

Somalia: #1
Sudan: #4
Syria: #5
Yemen: #6
Libya: #25
Iran: #47

So, I do see some correlation there. However, the two outliers are quite significant. Libya is considered only marginally unstable. Iran, while certainly not very popular with the US, is not particularly politically unstable at this time. There are many, many countries significantly more "unstable" than these two, so their presence begs the question 'why these countries?', which I turf back to you with the provocative observation that they are majority Muslim and highly visible in the public eye.

Regardless, my other points stand, and I believe they may be more important. Firstly, that experts do not generally regard nationality as a reliable predictor of terrorist activity, as US born citizens represent the majority of domestic terrorism since 9/11, so regardless of justification, policy experts simply think this is bad strategy. Secondly, that terrorism represents a minuscule amount of US mortality. Any death caused by terrorism is too many, but as a healthcare researcher, the amount of terrorism deaths in the US per year are a rounding error: 200,000 people die preventable deaths of CV and stroke alone, while roughly 6 die of terrorism. Ergo, I think that allowing terrorism to dominate both public discourse and policy agenda the way it does is a result of fear mongering on the part of the media and non-objective policymaking on the part of the white house and congress, which is to me, a cardinal sin (albeit a depressingly common one).

Re: Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS

PostPosted: March 29th, 2017, 3:33 am
by TheLionPrince

Re: Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS

PostPosted: March 29th, 2017, 2:44 pm
by Azdgari
Great post! I was totally unfamiliar with that aspect of the bill's heritage, so I really appreciate you pointing that out. I acknowledge allowing refugees to enter, from anywhere and especially near ISIS territory, has risk. I think that Johnson would have been disingenuous had he insinuated that any amount of vetting makes accepting refugees a risk-free prospect.

That being said, for me the moral imperatives probably outweigh the risks. I will do some more thinking on the subject and edit/post again. Allowing children and families trapped in war zones to find a pathway to safety and opportunity is, to me... I don't have time to phrase this eloquently at the moment, but if we as a country can't contribute to efforts other countries (even our neighbors) are making in that arena, then I don't think we're living up to our self-conception of being world leader. You are, though, concerned with the risks to our own populace, and that's really important too. I definitely acknowledge the merit and weight behind that thinking.

On the subject of leadership, actually, I suppose with recent developments like abandoning the Paris agreements, abandoning the TPP (not that I necessarily disagree with that) trying to move away from NATO at least rhetorically, 'America First' etc. that being a world leader is actually not high on the US priority list, despite seeking another considerable military budget increase to maintain our (in my opinion) increasingly unsustainable global military hegemony.

Re: Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS

PostPosted: March 29th, 2017, 6:35 pm
by Regulus
Personally, I'm a bit torn on this situation. I think it's clear from what's happening to European countries that letting in refugees by the thousands isn't a good idea. Just look at the skyrocketing crime rate of countries like Germany and France--what's happening over there isn't good.

That said, it's clearly morally wrong not to do something about this. To me, it just seems like one of those "damned if you, damned if you don't" types of situations.

Re: Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS

PostPosted: March 29th, 2017, 7:12 pm
by Elton John
I mean where are the syrian refugees supposed to go? They can't go back to Syria. Saying it's a warzone is quite the understatement. We can't let them die out in the middle of the ocean, that would be a huge human rights violation.

We take them in. Yes, crime rates will spike. Not all of them will be saints. But it would be a far bigger crime to let them die in the middle of nowhere.

Then you ask me, would I be willing to let a few of them live with me? Yes, I would. Unfortunately it is not my decision given my living circumstances. If it were my decision I would.

Re: Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS

PostPosted: March 29th, 2017, 7:48 pm
by WildSimba

Re: Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS

PostPosted: March 30th, 2017, 5:00 pm
by Azdgari

Re: Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS

PostPosted: March 30th, 2017, 6:24 pm
by Regulus

Re: Donald Trump - First 100 Days as POTUS

PostPosted: March 30th, 2017, 7:49 pm
by WildSimba