[quote="Azdgari"][quote="WildSimba"][quote="Regulus"]Personally, I'm a bit torn on this situation. I think it's clear from what's happening to European countries that letting in refugees by the thousands isn't a good idea. Just look at the skyrocketing crime rate of countries like Germany and France--what's happening over there isn't good.
That said, it's clearly morally wrong not to do something about this. To me, it just seems like one of those "damned if you, damned if you don't" types of situations.[/quote]
But we shouldn't be dictating our country purely off of moral concern. Especially when it's a possible national security issue. It's a little more than a bit of a crime rate increase, what's happening in France and Germany is only getting worse by the week. You know the old phrase "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch." Same thing applies here, we're talking about bringing in uncivilized people into a western society. It doesn't work. We'd be taking far too big of a risk taking them in, considering they're even using women and children to commit acts of violence (primarily suicide bombing). We just simply can't be the moral high ground for every country like we've tried so hard to be in the past.
The best thing we could do right now is pull out our relations with Saudi Arabia, and stop the funding to these terrorist groups at the source. Then let it die out on its own. Trying to take in refugees at this point into the US would be nothing more than adding a band-aid to an open wound at this point. We've learned of this quickly from France. Although, I do agree with you Az, some of the countries on that list of barred countries is a little weird, and yes it's pretty much certainly from public viewpoint. What trump is doing is certainly not perfect, but it's a bold step in the right direction, that I personally feel needed to be taken.[/quote]
Can you help me understand the crime waves Germany and France are experiencing? Most of my brief research suggests that
immigrants do not commit more crime than natives. I've seen lots of anecdotal or incomplete evidence against immigrants in newspaper articles as well as a few other sources, but they tend to take numbers out of context (e.g. immigrant crime rose by 79%,
but the number of immigrants increased by 440%) or other such flaws. That being said, there's definitely enough there to make me a little bit wary, and if you can show me some good data, I'd be glad to see it.
Secondly, I think you're unfairly painting the whole refugee population with the ISIS brush. When you say they're "uncivilized" and using women and children as weapons, you're talking about extremists, not the average refugee who just wants his daughter to be able to pursue some semblance of a real life. Yes, there are cultural adjustments, and the views of many Muslims on women are incompatible with our own. But you can't judge a refugee population based on the actions of the group whose violence is
causing them to be refugees.
Side note: I'm not sure that the US has much of a history of taking the moral high ground.[/quote]
I said TRYING not succeeding.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/693 ... tacks-2016http://www.politico.eu/article/terror-d ... terrorism/I mean, I can't really find any number statistics (as terror attacks are hard to map out statistically, and I'm not going to act like I know 100% that I know exact numbers of anything), but the reason I think there's cause of concern is this:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... s-into-re/ISIS is willingly infecting groups of refugees with their own terrorists. Clearly, too, they've found there's ways to fit in with the normal refugees. It's sad that normal refugees would have to get thrown under the bus because of them, but that's exactly what ISIS doesn't want us to do. They want us to bring them in so they can attack. It's far too hotkey of an issue to just let them in blindly. If we can somehow find a way to seperate the terrorists from the Refugees (which in that case, would be hard because once again, ISIS is managing to FIT IN with the crowds), then I'd agree with you. But until then, we shouldn't be taking the risk, because 1 apple can spoil the bunch.
Also, let us not forget Islam as a whole is NOT a religion of peace. There's just things that are believed in their religion and culture that wouldn't adjust to american society if they were to be imported here. I'm sorry but as a gay man myself, I really don't want cultures of people here who think it's the honorable thing to do within their religion to throw gay men off of roofs, and stone them to death, and honor kill women for not abiding by their law (which by the way has happened even in America, just to a much lesser degree).
The simple question is, why take the chance when there's a majority in their country that ARE savages and want to inflict us nothing but harm?
Are you talking just women and children? I guess that would make more sense, but are you really willing to scrape-goat all of the men too, to allow for just the women and children?