My Lion King Forum

Discussions done under the topic of Abortion has temporarily led to the topic of killing of calves, in comparison with killing of fetuses. And this topic deserves another thread.

I think I can just copy what I said in that Abortion thread to express my views. (modified version)

I'm very moral relativism, or very very moral relativism. I believe even killing is just a compromise, a result mainly due to power comparison(chicken has 0, human 1, so human wins) and random factors(they are collectively very influential to the final outcome, like the zeitgeist, or the weather that day). Now follows the case analysis.

I know how the meat industrial is supporting the contemporary unsustainable way of meat eating of humans(check out some animal rights website and you'll see), and the only rational pity I feel for the chicken I ate today is that it is too powerless compared to humans. Eat or be eaten. That's what I usually muse over when I have meals, the Darwinistic morality as displayed by the meat I eat. Whether they are capable of suffering is objectively and rationally irrelevant, unless they are powerful and capable of significant retaliation action.(which is one reason why cannibalism is unworthy and rarely practiced)

Yeh, I'm in very much agreement with political realism, if you know that stuff.

P.S.: I used the word "objectively", because I LOVE lions, and I know they are doomed in front of humans' invasion, therefore unworthy of protection objectively. but I want to protect them anyway, which is a completely subjective and has nothing to do with rationality, it's just my personal weirdness. So in the same way, even if you believe in this kind of moral relativism, you can still subjectively oppose the meat industrial. My caveat is, when you do, the struggle goes into a higher level, it becomes the struggle between two kinds of humans, which depends not on the power of the eaten animals but the power of the animal rightists.


Of course, we can also discuss animal rights in medical research, entertainment(circus, zoo, bullfighting, horse riding(not the joyous kind of JaquiChan, but commercial ones where horses got shot after they got hurt), dog fighting etc).

I found out how badly animals are being treated from meat to horses in major racing. I feel ashamed of being human now

At my step dad's work, they call these papers they have to fill out C.O.W. Forms. But now, they can't call them that because it's "degrading" to the cows. (The company follows the animal rights activists).

What a bunch'a bull. The cow won't give a darn. I support the fight against animal cruelty, but animal rights get ridiculous.

I'm not against meat consumption, I mean, these are animals bred to be eaten; different would we ate wild animals, to compare such things would be like comparing humans to machines, both can do a task, but only one can alter its destiny

Beyond that, something that I am totally against is the animal abuse, referring to entertainment, that is, why should animals suffer for human entertainment, I would not be so funny for them if they were the ones who were being mistreated by others, as happened in ancient Rome and gladiators, but also people enjoyed those things, humans are very corrupt, there is much we can do, just trying to help not doing more damage than other do.

I know it's really sad to see these animals in captivity and put in place ... But at least I personally can n't do anything to change the world, if I could, I would have done long ago.

I'm an extremist when it comes to animal rights. COMPLETELY against animal abuse, NO exceptions. (I had to deal with it today, actually... >____>) Animal abuse is the vilest of things in this planet.

I am not totally sure, you see the thing with animal rights is that they do not really have a way to express and exercise those rights. For instance...


[quote="SimbaGamer"]At my step dad's work, they call these papers they have to fill out C.O.W. Forms. But now, they can't call them that because it's "degrading" to the cows. (The company follows the animal rights activists).

What a bunch'a bull. The cow won't give a darn. I support the fight against animal cruelty, but animal rights get ridiculous.[/quote]

I agree with SimbaGamer here, what did the cow turn around and start protesting with picket signs? How on Earth would they know whether it was "degrading" them or not?

When it comes to animal rights in terms of how they feel, I plead ignorance. We do not actually know for a fact how capable they are of feeling emotion and obviously some do feel more emotion than others. They can feel pain though, since pain is not an emotion but a sense and feeling. And based on that... Well you know, I would love to say "I HATE ANIMAL CRUELTY AND COMPLETELY AM AGAINST IT!" but you know what, I am having chicken later for dinner, bought from a supermarket so there is a good chance I am paying them for treating animals that way =/.

I don't think cows and sheep would not exsist anymore if we didn't eat them. Atleast not in the way you and I know them today.

I don't think animals need 'rights' as such, but rather just fair treatment.
If it's going to be killed, atleast give it a nice field to live in. That's what my village does.
Actually, most race horses get a fantastic life, while they race. It's afterwards where the trouble begins. It's not so bad in the UK, because there's charities and plenty of homes willing to take an ex racer and bring them into riding work. We've got 2, Viking Spirit and Louie (We used to have Dancer too, but he died almost 10 years ago now).

I think they should be atLEAST given: Health care, space, food, water, company (if they are herd/pack animals) and some form of entertainment.

I don't know why it's so hard to treat animals nicely. They don't need to be spoilt, just cared for.
I find a lot of horse riding stables think horses are china dolls. They're not!! They don't need to be kept in a stable in the winter, with 5 rugs on and a 3ft deep bed. The horses I ride have 1 or 2 rugs and are kept outside all year round and they are perfectly fit and healthy.

I have watched several videos of animal cruelty in the meat, fur and racing industries. I feel so awful for these poor creatures and I truely do think we can make better lives for them in the future. I mean, we've come a LONG way in the last hundred years. Horses used to drop dead on the street from pulling things around all day long. Imagine what we can do in another 100 years?

I second both Annie and Flip. First off, I am against animal cruelty but as Flip stated, while we eat meat, we are paying people to give animals these bad conditions to be raised in. And for the most part, cows live a decent life getting as fat as they want grazing, sleeping, and pooping all day. The way we kill them is much more humane than how they would die in the wild. When things get killed in the wild, it isn't just a little bonk on the head and they are out. They are either bitten on the neck and slowly drained of their blood while struggling to get away or savagely torn apart by a group of predators while they are still alive. We also don't know if certain livestock are able to process the fact that they are being mistreated. It's not like the chickens sit in the pen all day and think "Crap my life sucks!". Sure it is a sad thing for animals to be treated like that but our research hasn't led us to facts about animal feelings yet.

But we shouldn't assume they're simply ignorant of all things around them I know they have nervous systems, and senses of smell, for large meat industries the conditions would overwhelm each of these senses and more. Of course, you've got your lovely little farms that give the animals a good life before humanely putting them down. As for some of the larger industries many people get meat from:

Baby pigs are castrated fully conscious with nothing to numb the pain. They pick 'em up and cut it off. I forget the reason why, however.

That's just a single example. And to adress them getting violently slaughtered in nature: the predator's don't know what else to do. They don't have a choice. Kill for a meal and feed your kids and self or die. A human does. Meat is a very important dietary staple for a human. If you get your meat from a reliable source, good on. However, a human has a choice. He/she can humanely kill the animal or subject it to torture and kill it inhumanely. Incomparable, wild animals to humans.

DoublayPostay: Sorry if that was a tad tough to read, I have odd sentence structure