Moral/Theological Connections with TLK Series

[amani88]

Greetings from a brand new MLK Forum member!!!

I did some brief research on other subforums, I didn't see a topic quite like this. . .so I decided to open a new one. However, if there is a topic this could have been included under another topic post, I apologize profusely. . .it would be yet another piece of evidence that confirms my sneaking suspicion that I am not perfect

So, since this is my first real post (aside from my greeting in the "Intro" area), and since all conversations tend to start with a question after a greeting, here it is:

"In watching and reflecting on any of the "Lion King" movies, do you find any powerful and practical resonances between TLK and your life? Specifically, do you find any moral/ethical or theological connections between your own life and these movies? If so, please share"

As one who teaches both religion and a biology courses at a Catholic school (and has a little background in philosophy), I am fascinated to hear any of your answers! Obviously, I don't require anyone to share something they wouldn't want to share. Also, I completely respect everyone's free will to chose their own faith/moral identity- or none at all! Hence, I hope we tolerate, respect, and perhaps even learn from any such views that are different than ours. . .Indeed, it would be a beautiful thing for not only this forum, but indeed for our media/internet culture, to have a conversation that can lead to friendships and not just digital 'yelling matches'

While I tend to be pretty busy with the non-MLK world (and life and general), I'll occasionally check back in to see and reflect on any responses. Wishing you a most pleasant night (or morning, depending where you are at)!

[Elton John]

I think I can relate to Simba moving away from his 'worry free' lifestyle and do what he needs to do in life.

I'm at a point where I need to make sure I am prepared for the future.

I also worry that I will never live up to my dad, who was a lt colonel in the air force for 20 years, was a teacher for 15-20 and is currently retired.

[amani88]

Hey Elton John- Those are some good points!

And it sounds like your father is a pretty amazing man (btw, a big "Thank You" for his service to our country). Out of curiosity, if you don't mind me asking, what did he teach? And, on that matter, what are your college/academic interests?

I, myself, recently dealt with a similar issue (that is, trying to have a sound future) after completing my last grad lvl theology course and looking for a job (indeed, I still struggle with it as I start my job as a brand new teacher)! I agree that the preparation for the future & trying to be more like those we admire is pretty difficult. However, I think two points from the original TLK movie gives us both some good guidance:

1) Rafiki's advice on "running from the past or learning from it" is kinda cliché, but helpful here (a point I think you implied in your post). While for Simba it meant realizing who was along the whole time, a different view of it (a "negative", contrary defined understanding of this concept) is the following: even if things get messed up, you are not stuck there! To quote Mufasa: "you are more than what you have become." Applying this to one's future gives a reassuring hope that change for the better is more than possible if (and inevitably when) it doesn't work out.

2) Look even at Simba's "forgiveness" of Scar near the end of the first movie, effectively sparing his life (well, until he decided to literally go out in a "blaze of glory" . I put "forgiveness" in quotes because it is something that seems to be a more ironic, "eye-for-an-eye" punishment rather than an unqualified forgiveness (something that some people, especially many Christians, have a hard time embracing). The point is that forgiveness is a necessary, though extremely difficult, part of life that helps us truly grow into who we truly are. Interestingly the first point repeats (and second point supports) a post I read online where someone saw the "Hakuna Matata" stage, and eventual homecoming, of Simba as a type of "Prodigal Son" parable (which is at least an interesting literary connection if one does not subscribe to Christianity. . .).

Along those lines, forgiveness/re-orientating ourselves towards our true goal, doesn't happen by oneself: it requires a community!! A great quote I heard from an old Jesuit priest once was something to this effect: "Humans are an animal that cannot heal themselves on their own." Of course, one can say that about any animal. . .but humans, I think we can all agree, are something quite extraordinary! (of course, Christians understand that this community as the loving Church, Jews [potentially] as the people of Israel, and so forth. . .I'd be interested to hear the motivation of non-religious people to forgive/look past others failings, but that is beyond the scope of this post. . .one could PM regarding that!)

Of course, I could then get into "We are One" . . . but I think I've spilled enough ink over your very interesting (and personally pertinent) post

[TheLionPrince]

One of the biggest theological connections between the movie and my life is Rafiki's phrase, "He lives in you". As a Christian, I am reminded by scripture that "Greater is he [Jesus] that it is me than he that in the world." Therefore, after coming to Christ because we believe he is the Son of God and the savior of all mankind, we carry himself in our hearts, minds, and our ways even after centuries since his first death on the cross. Of course, this is similar to Simba believing that Mufasa is alive with himself after dying in the wildebeest stampede, whom like Jesus, died trying to save the one that was lost. Listening to Lebo M's version or the Broadway version of "He Lives in You" really strengthens the similarities; even the lyric, "In your reflection, he lives in you" is comparable to God creating humans in his image. So, while we are looking at ourselves in the mirror or in the reflection of the water, be reminded that we are not only seeing ourselves, but the living God inside of us.

Another one is how Mufasa's ghost looks sadden at his son when he first says, "Simba, you have forgotten me." Of course, all humans in general go through the motions of life that places our heads and lives in a spiral, and we forget the lessons taught to us to never give up. Again, reflecting back on me as a Christian, I admit I have forsaken God whenever I face discouragement and disappointment in my life, and grow too lazy to read the Bible despite the "head knowledge" that I have that he is a "present help in time of need". Looking back on The Lion King, much like Simba was taught of the Circle of Life from his father, I was taught the basics of Christianity at a young age. Then, life happens, and you get downhearted that you nearly toss everything you ever told aside, and go your own way. Nevertheless, it's encouraging that Simba returns back to his roots that encourages me to do the same, but it's even more encouraging that Mufasa never forgot his son much like God promises never to leave us nor forsake us.

[Regulus]

Interesting question.

I'm not religious. I'm not even close to being religious. I'm hardly even spiritual at all. So, one would think that this movie wouldn't resonate too well with me. That, however, isn't the case.

I see it as being a story of growing up and taking responsibility, not necessarily anything spiritual. The way the story is presented, however, is almost sublime in a certain way. The animation, music, and voice acting all blend together to create something that's almost like a religious experience. But, I call it art. Good art is supposed to make you feel a little spiritual--that's what it's intended to do, anyway.

[amani88]

Hey Chris! Greetings from another fellow Louisianan (I live down by NOLA) and fellow Christian (I’ve been a lifelong Catholic)! I really enjoyed your post: it was theologically and spiritually rewarding. I hope we can keep in touch!

Let’s consider your first paragraph:

[quote="TheLionPrince"]One of the biggest theological connections between the movie and my life is Rafiki's phrase, "He lives in you". As a Christian, I am reminded by scripture that "Greater is he [Jesus] that it is me than he that in the world." Therefore, after coming to Christ because we believe he is the Son of God and the savior of all mankind, we carry himself in our hearts, minds, and our ways even after centuries since his first death on the cross. Of course, this is similar to Simba believing that Mufasa is alive with himself after dying in the wildebeest stampede, whom like Jesus, died trying to save the one that was lost. Listening to Lebo M's version or the Broadway version of "He Lives in You" really strengthens the similarities; even the lyric, "In your reflection, he lives in you" is comparable to God creating humans in his image. So, while we are looking at ourselves in the mirror or in the reflection of the water, be reminded that we are not only seeing ourselves, but the living God inside of us.[/quote]

I think this is a very valid interpretation!* Actually, let us consider those following themes: water, indwelling of some great spirit, truth, being interconnected by such a spirit, etc.. does this sound familiar? My suggestion (repeating parts of other people’s insights): this can be seen as a type of Baptism. (The sacrament of a Trinitarian) Baptism, as Christians generally understand it, includes the key belief that it joins one mystically to the Body of Christ (which is not only a connection to Christ, but also, to at least some degree, to many other Christians). Let’s look at the refrain to the song you mentioned (which are some of my favorite lyrics of any song for the reasons we have been discussing) :

"He lives in you
He lives in me
He watches over
Everything we see
Into the water
Into the truth
In your reflection
He lives in you"

The reference to “water,” “truth”, etc. certainly fit the opening scene of TLK2; however, I posit that Christians could understand such water as theologically symbolic of “death." Ancient Jews, of which the first Christians were, greatly valued water and greatly feared it. After all, they lived in a desert, and even small lakes were called great things like the “Sea of Galilee.” Furthermore, as many Jews understood, water, the rough seas, waves- these symbolized death (drowning, shipwrecks, abyss, etc.). Early Christians, and still many today, see the water of Baptism as a way of passing from death (sin) to new life (promise and partial realization of Resurrection in Christ)* In any event, the “water” is in someway linked to "truth", which one could perhaps see faint echoes of another, capitol-"T" Truth.

I also really love your second paragraph commentary. I, myself, also struggle with living out my call to discipleship started at Baptism. . .but you reminded of an important point that I overlooked : that, just like an ever supportive Mufasa, who loved Simba not only constantly but also self-sacrificially, all Christians are to be aware of God’s steadfast, continually outpouring love for us! As St. Paul tells us, Christ became “poor” for our sake, he emptied himself of everything not necessary to his ministry to save us and offer new life (the fancy theological term for this is kenosis!There is your free theo lesson for the day ). Whenever I feel that a cross is to heavy for me to bear, I recall (to quote the title of a beautiful poem) that “Infinity [was] dwindled to Infancy” to redeem and transform me and you.

P.S. If you don’t mind me taking a guess at your Christian denomination: are you an Evangelical Christian? I respectfully ask this because 1) I’m curious and 2) I admire your commitment to Christ and perserverance to know him deeper through the Bible. One thing I think all Christian need to be aware of is that Christ, who is the Logos (the Word of God) is present in a deep and real way in the “word of God,” the Bible. . .and this is something that I believe many Catholics have grown in appreciation of this; in fact, the first half of the Catholic Mass is known as the "Liturgy of the Word" in which O.T. & N.T. readings feature prominently (of course, Catholic, Orthodox, and I believe Anglican/Episcopalian theology also sees God’s presence in another very real and special way: through encounters with him in specific rituals known as "sacraments.")

* ( I completely understand that, on the surface, the movie was mostly, if not completely, displaying a type of African-ecological pantheism (with perhaps some Old Testament and Shakespearian allusions thrown in). Yet, the beauty of our own experiences allow us to see different, perhaps equally valid, points. For instance, I do believe that a valid interpretation of the spiritualism of TLK is a type of non-spiritual re-incarnation (read “the carbon cycle”). However, as a Christian (and as a Christian educated in the Ignatian tradition which teaches to “find God in all things”) I cannot help be see strong Christian themes in TLK.

*For Catholics, such as myself, this is even more driven home with RCC teaching that Baptism forgives (original) sin.

[amani88]

[quote="Regulus"]Interesting question.

I'm not religious. I'm not even close to being religious. I'm hardly even spiritual at all. So, one would think that this movie wouldn't resonate too well with me. That, however, isn't the case.

I see it as being a story of growing up and taking responsibility, not necessarily anything spiritual. The way the story is presented, however, is almost sublime in a certain way. The animation, music, and voice acting all blend together to create something that's almost like a religious experience. But, I call it art. Good art is supposed to make you feel a little spiritual--that's what it's intended to do, anyway.[/quote]

Dear Regulus- Thank you for your reflection! By the way, speaking of "good art", I LOVE your signature art of Mufasa & Simba Very cool!

I think I can relate with what you are saying, though perhaps slightly differently. I recognize that TLK is, for the most part, explicitly not religious. . .however, I, too, sense that there is certainly a "spiritual" feeling when watching TLK. Of course, I think it is more than a feeling, and find it correlate wells with many points of my faith. . .but there is something truly transcendental about works of "good art," as you put it.

Hmm. . .Art, theology, spirituality, and philosophy. . .now that is a really intense conversation (and probably the subject of some dude's doctoral thesis out there! ) I wish I knew more about all these, but may I close with two brief comments on such a conversation?

1) A theologian I read saw that art has an amazing ability/purpose to transfer "yourself out of one's self" (an literally "ecstatic" experience). I can't remember much more than this (perhaps it helps one overcome selfishness and/or understanding Christ through the lens of art can allow for a type of union with him. . .), but I think seeing art as an "ecstatic" experience (which your originally comment may partially hint at) is valuable.

2) Philosophers (certainly Christian, but perhaps pagan philosophers that were brought into conversation with Christian philosophers) talked about something called the "transcendentals": "the true, the good, and the beautiful." I am not quite up to snuff on all the philosophical-theological background of this discussion. . .but later Christians saw that these were qualities of and/or qualities that pointed towards the Divine.

I enjoyed your comments, and hope you have a good night (day)!

[TheLionPrince]

As a heads up, amani88, do not double post. It's against the rules here at MLK Forum.

[quote="amani88"]P.S. If you don’t mind me taking a guess at your Christian denomination: are you an Evangelical Christian? I respectfully ask this because 1) I’m curious and 2) I admire your commitment to Christ and perserverance to know him deeper through the Bible. One thing I think all Christian need to be aware of is that Christ, who is the Logos (the Word of God) is present in a deep and real way in the “word of God,” the Bible. . .and this is something that I believe many Catholics have grown in appreciation of this; in fact, the first half of the Catholic Mass is known as the "Liturgy of the Word" in which O.T. & N.T. readings feature prominently (of course, Catholic, Orthodox, and I believe Anglican/Episcopalian theology also sees God’s presence in another very real and special way: through encounters with him in specific rituals known as "sacraments.")[/quote]

Yes, I am an evangelical Christian, and thank you for the kind compliments. It's always nice to know there is another believer who loves The Lion King as much I do.

[Milla]

Interesting, I can see some connections between me and TLK...

1- TLK is from Africa, I'm from Africa. that's the first connection! (plus my language 'Arabic' is the closest language to Swahili, so I know many many Swahili words and vocabulary

2- the main species in TLK are lions, and I think my family (Or pretty much my entire country) are like lions, here is how: traditionally, in my country (Libya) we eat with hand, and we eat from the same plate, it's a huge plate. (with lions, they eat from the same one animal, which is the same one plate) our main foods are bread, meat and tomato (red tomatoes... reminds me of blood XD) In Libya we live in big families, with the father in charge of everything (King) I mean, especially with money and property, a woman shall never ever deal with money, it's a man's job. (the most important thing a woman does is taking care of children and cooking)

3- I had to live with the war that came to my country, it was so stressing running from place to another, so I just went with Hakuna Matata, it saved me from over thinking about what might happen to me (the connection is when Simba ran away from his home and found Hakuna Matata, and me running away from my home and finding the real meaning of Hakuna Matata (since I already know it)

4-My Father and Grandfather are so much like Mufasa, they laugh from time to time but when they get serious, they will give that look, it just makes me want stay quiet... When they tell you to do something, then there's no saying no, you just do it. (and my grandfather's cousin, he is a copy of Rafiki, he is so funny yet full of wisdom.)

When seeing these connections it makes me feel that the world is so small (Like when my mother sat beside this random woman in the park and chatted, it turns out she relates to our family... creepy)
Well, it's the circle of life and we are all connected in it (fun fact: In Libya "The Circle of Life" is an old wisdom that many people always say.) (uhmm, makes me think that they put it in TLK since it's famous in Africa?)

Thanks for the great topic have a great day!

[zerodix]

I really find this subject interesting. There are a lot of people, if not all, that can relate to this movie.
It has life started till adulthood, and it came out when most of us where children.
then Simba gets smacked in the face (not literally offcourse) when his father gets killed. We all have hard times/losing loved ones in our life.
Then we have betrayal (Scar) which happens to all of us too, we all get betrayed by friends/family or other people we love, and more than once in a lifetime. Then we have the worry-free scenario, which is mostly running away for our problems. This can be related to not work on your problems, using bad stuff (alcohol or worse) to set a mind free.. but reality Always gets at you, that is the ghost in the clouds scene. We all have a point in life where we ask ourselves "who am i and what is my purpose in the end?" Also in the movie. We are all a sort of Simba. And maybe that is what the movie makes so legendary. It's a story about life. and the circle of it