What if Zira is Scar and Sarabi's daughter?

What if Zira is Scar and Sarabi's daughter?

Postby Zirafan12 » September 29th, 2014, 4:26 am

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She has her color's and eye's but she takes more after her father in physique and even personality.. :-o
But why did she turn into such a devil lioness? I think Scar groomed her to become his heir and darkened her heart.. :cry: but it makes so much sense. This would also make Nuka, Vitani and Kovu Scar's grandchildren. Vitani has Scar's dark fur around her eyes, even Zira doesn't have that feature, Kovu has his grandfather's eyes and dark fur, but Vitani inherited her 'head tuft' from grandma Uru, Zira also inherits her grandma Uru's stripe. (We have no idea what Scar and Mufasa's mother looked like.) Vitani also gets her blue eyes from Uru, or possibly a recessive gene. :devious: I also think that Zira is the reason for Sarabi's 'absence' in SP. After seeing Scar get ripped to shreds by his hyena pals, she became bloodthirsty and vengeful, she killed Sarabi when she was alone, or taking a night stroll. Simba loses his only parent and exiles her and her 'Pride' to the outlands.
This would also explain Simba's personality change, not only did he lose his father, but his mother as well.

So, whatdya think? thoughts?
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Re: What if Zira is Scar and Sarabi's daughter?

Postby TheLionPrince » September 30th, 2014, 5:10 am

[quote="Zirafan12"]But why did she turn into such a devil lioness? I think Scar groomed her to become his heir and darkened her heart.. :cry: but it makes so much sense. This would also make Nuka, Vitani and Kovu Scar's grandchildren. Vitani has Scar's dark fur around her eyes, even Zira doesn't have that feature, Kovu has his grandfather's eyes and dark fur, but Vitani inherited her 'head tuft' from grandma Uru, Zira also inherits her grandma Uru's stripe. (We have no idea what Scar and Mufasa's mother looked like.) Vitani also gets her blue eyes from Uru, or possibly a recessive gene.[/quote]

This does not make sense, and even outright contradicts the context of the movie. Zira herself states Kovu is Scar's hand-chosen successor. Zira's reasons for her evilness is clearly detailed that she believes Simba unrightfully killed Scar, and seeks to restore his natural order with Kovu on the throne ("I can now see the path to our glorious return to power..."). Also, Zira refers to Scar only by his name, and never refers to him as her father. Kovu mentions Scar as being somewhat of an adoptive father, not as a grandfather. The same should apply to Vitani and Nuka.

As for the genetics argument, you have to remind yourself that they are animated characters. The characters look the way they look is because of the filmmakers' artistic decisions. These characters don't have a DNA genetic chain we can study from to judge the dominant and recessive traits. Second, Uru is a non-canon character whose existence in the Six New Adventures books was denied by the first film's filmmakers on the audio commentary when they named Simba and Nala's cub "Fluffy" not Kopa, the books' main character. When they denied Kopa from existing in the first film, they indirectly denied all the content he appeared in from existing in the films.

Not to mention, you contradicted your own argument by stating no one knows what Mufasa and Scar's mother looks like, but you automatically assume she has blue eyes, a stripe, and a head tuft.

[quote="Zirafan12"]I also think that Zira is the reason for Sarabi's 'absence' in SP. After seeing Scar get ripped to shreds by his hyena pals, she became bloodthirsty and vengeful, she killed Sarabi when she was alone, or taking a night stroll. Simba loses his only parent and exiles her and her 'Pride' to the outlands.
This would also explain Simba's personality change, not only did he lose his father, but his mother as well.[/quote]

Hasn't Simba been through enough? He just learned Scar killed his father, and has a tremendous amount of power and responsibility at his disposal. Sarabi's death is not necessary for Simba to grow increasingly protective over Kiara or have a sudden mistrust of non-Pride Landers. First off, it was never mentioned that Sarabi was murdered by Zira, and a detail like that to an important character's mother is impossible to gloss over. Since it's never mentioned, it most likely never happened. Second, Simba only has a nightmare of his father's gruesome death, and if Sarabi was murdered, it would have been included given the event is more recent in times to the events of the sequel. Since this never occurs, Mufasa's death and the anger he has over Scar because of it is indeed the main fuel behind Simba's mistrust of anything associated to Scar including his chosen heir and the pride that raised him.
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Re: What if Zira is Scar and Sarabi's daughter?

Postby Mike0908 » October 13th, 2014, 6:54 pm

I always pictured Zira as Scar's girlfriend or admirer. She had such loyalty to Scar and had two kids who even resembled him. They said Kovu wasn't Scar's son but didn't say anything about Nuka or Vitani who could be Scar's children.

I just figured Sarabai and Sarafina both died offscreen maybe of old age or something. Neither Simba's mother or Nala's mother was mentioned in the film so I figured they both died by this point. If it was an Outlander especially Zira they'd have mentioned it in a line or a scene. Which makes me think both of Simba and Nala's mothers just died off screen.
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Re: What if Zira is Scar and Sarabi's daughter?

Postby Zirafan12 » October 17th, 2014, 7:39 am

[quote="TheLionPrince"][quote="Zirafan12"]But why did she turn into such a devil lioness? I think Scar groomed her to become his heir and darkened her heart.. :cry: but it makes so much sense. This would also make Nuka, Vitani and Kovu Scar's grandchildren. Vitani has Scar's dark fur around her eyes, even Zira doesn't have that feature, Kovu has his grandfather's eyes and dark fur, but Vitani inherited her 'head tuft' from grandma Uru, Zira also inherits her grandma Uru's stripe. (We have no idea what Scar and Mufasa's mother looked like.) Vitani also gets her blue eyes from Uru, or possibly a recessive gene.[/quote][/quote]

[quote]This does not make sense, and even outright contradicts the context of the movie. Zira herself states Kovu is Scar's hand-chosen successor. Zira's reasons for her evilness is clearly detailed that she believes Simba unrightfully killed Scar, and seeks to restore his natural order with Kovu on the throne ("I can now see the path to our glorious return to power..."). Also, Zira refers to Scar only by his name, and never refers to him as her father. Kovu mentions Scar as being somewhat of an adoptive father, not as a grandfather. The same should apply to Vitani and Nuka. [/quote]

Actually, just because SHE said that Kovu was Scar's protege and has NO relation to him, doesn't mean that she couldn't of been lying or her mind is too twisted.
Where could he of received his green eyes, dark fur and dark fur around his eyes, this trait is prominent in Vitani and Nuka as well.
You do know that not all children call their parents 'mum' or 'dad'.. perhaps he didn't want to be referred to as 'dad' because of his egotistical , childish personality? he doesn't seem like the 'dad type' but he would've sired Zira with Sarabi through 'blackmail' because he needed a heir but because he had a daughter, he rejected her because he thought females were weak.

Scar and Zira have many similarities, the 'nose', the 'goatie', even the eyebrows and eyes. But mix that with Sarabi and she gets the 'red eyes' 'scruffy ear rims' and the 'white rings' below her eyes. In fact, Zira's fur color is a lightened version of Sarabi's fur color. I know Disney didn't intend that but it 'works' in the 'fanon world'. :D


[quote]Not to mention, you contradicted your own argument by stating no one knows what Mufasa and Scar's mother looks like, but you automatically assume she has blue eyes, a stripe, and a head tuft. [/quote]


Actually I meant that AS no one knows the design of Scar/Mufasa's mother, it CAN be assumed she carries the traits of Vitani and Zira.. there's no right or wrong to it basically.
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Re: What if Zira is Scar and Sarabi's daughter?

Postby TheLionPrince » October 19th, 2014, 8:41 pm

[quote="Zirafan12"]Actually, just because SHE said that Kovu was Scar's protege and has NO relation to him, doesn't mean that she couldn't of been lying or her mind is too twisted.
Where could he of received his green eyes, dark fur and dark fur around his eyes, this trait is prominent in Vitani and Nuka as well.[/quote]

The director of Simba's Pride confirmed some years ago that Zira was a follower so whatever argument you have to support that Zira is a daughter of Scar (and Sarabi) falls flat on itself. You can't get more official confirmation than the actual people who made the film. Again, as you may know, Kovu was originally written to be Scar's son, which is why he has those features (here's a concept art of Kovu's original design). The statement from Rooney confirms Kovu was re-written from Scar's son to be an appointed heir, and assumingly the features still stayed the same despite being mentioned repeatedly he was not Scar's son.

[quote="Zirafan12"]You do know that not all children call their parents 'mum' or 'dad'.. perhaps he didn't want to be referred to as 'dad' because of his egotistical , childish personality? he doesn't seem like the 'dad type' but he would've sired Zira with Sarabi through 'blackmail' because he needed a heir but because he had a daughter, he rejected her because he thought females were weak.[/quote]

So what? Outside of the films or the filmmakers' words, there's no information you have on whether Scar wanted to be addressed as father. Again, Zira only mentions Scar by his name, not by a human endearment term like "Dad" or "Father". No mention is given that Sarabi is the mother of Zira, which would actually make Simba and Zira half-siblings, a relationship never referred to during the movie. May I add an off-hand question: Why would Sarabi want to mate with Scar in the first place? In the only scene they are together, it is clear there is no mutual love or connection between them.

[quote="Zirafan12"]Scar and Zira have many similarities, the 'nose', the 'goatie', even the eyebrows and eyes. But mix that with Sarabi and she gets the 'red eyes' 'scruffy ear rims' and the 'white rings' below her eyes. In fact, Zira's fur color is a lightened version of Sarabi's fur color. I know Disney didn't intend that but it 'works' in the 'fanon world'. :D[/quote]

You said it yourself. The filmmakers at Disney most likely didn't intend to make this connection, so it only works in fanfiction only.
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