The Cubs' Ages, Lineages, and Zira's Claims

[Carl]

Ok, so. According to Zira, Scar "handpicked Kovu" to be his heir. Many people believe this to be true. Some people believe Scar to be Kovu's father (despite the line in the movie that disproves that theory). Kovu and Vitani however, who can be presumed to be littermates as they have the same mother and are roughly the same size, are not bigger than Kiara.

Lion cubs grow quickly. Very quickly. Kiara could not have been born before Scar's death. We know for a fact that she wasn't. So, it stands to reason that since Kovu and Vitani are not drastically bigger than her, that they couldn't have been either. We know Kovu isn't Scar's son, and we know Scar was dead when Kiara was born.

Personally I have always assumed that Zira's assertion that Kovu was chosen by Scar was simply a fabrication on her part. Some fans don't think so, some think Scar really did choose Kovu and therefore that Kovu and Vitani are older than Kiara, and some believe them both to be his offspring.
Well, I know it's not completely accurate as a movie, but those theories don't make sense to me. So, what are you guys' thoughts on this?

I'm just curious as to what's the most popular opinion here.

If you guys think one of those theories is true, that's fine, and I'd like to hear why, but I believe none of Zira's children are Scar's, Kovu and Vitani were born after Scar's death (meaning he didn't choose Kovu for anything), and Zira's just a psycho fangirl.

[Regulus]

I don't know about this, but I have to say, there is one of these theories that I haven't considered before.

[quote]They are all the same age, but Scar did choose Kovu. Maybe his ghost came back or something. Zira wasn't making it up.[/quote]

I like that. It makes sense, and it parallels the events in the first movie in a pretty awesome, but flipped, way.

Now, if only SP opened with that scene instead of Kiara's presentation, I would be so happy.

[Carl]

^ I think it would make a cool fic, but I sure don't need to write it.

[cleargreenwater]

Between this whole thread I just got this whack vision of Zira running off with & keeping Scar's paw like a mummy hand and SP opening up with her just sticking it into a pile of random cubs to pick one :|

I'm not gonna pick the non-answer though lol, I just assumed they were all the same age and Zira was bonkers about the whole thing.

[TheLionPrince]

I selected "I believe in something else."

I do believe Kovu and Vitani are littermates, and they share the same mother in Zira. I do believe Scar while alive personally handpicked Kovu whom had just been born. Zira repeats Scar hand-chosen Kovu several times in the movie to convince me she is not making up it up. True, it would add more to her insanity if the whole affair was a lie and makes Kovu's life story even sadder.

I think the animators and writers did a good enough distinguishing Kovu and Kiara's ages; Kovu has a thicker head tuft than Simba's, which indicates he is older than cub Simba. The only reason why Kovu and Kiara look approximately the same is because the Outlands has a depleted supply of food and water, as noted by Zira so Kovu is most likely underfed for his age. As for Kiara, I believe she is the same age as cub Simba though personality-wise, Nala states to Simba that "she's just like you when you were young". So, my estimates are that cub Kovu is more or less a 1 year old, while cub Kiara is roughly 6-7 months old.

[Regulus]

Also, female cubs reach maturity faster than male cubs, just like it is with humans. I forgot about that.

So, I guess it's possible that Kovu is a few months older than Kiara. It's still unlikely that he was alive before Scar's death, though.

[Carl]

Female cubs maturing faster should in theory make Vitani a bit bigger than Kovu then, even going along with the argument that they are the same size as Kiara on account of being underfed, which I do not deny is possible.

And while I do agree they could be a few months older (it's doubtful they were born within even the same week I think), like Regulus, I don't think either was born before Scar's death. If they had been, they'd probably have been better fed until his death, assuming Scar wanted his chosen heir to live, and I think Zira would have and probably did poach in the Pridelands. She wouldn't have helped the grown Outlanders like that, but a cub she believed chosen by Scar, she would have. We're shown in the film that she has no qualms with sneaking into the Pridelands.

So while I can't say your theory is wrong, TLP, I don't share it.

[TheLionPrince]

And that's fine, but you have to remember the Pride Lands towards the end of Scar's reign was barren with few sources of water and food. So, unless one approves of the theory that Zira and the pride that became Outsiders were hunting in another area when Simba returned, whatever food or water supply wouldn't have an effect on baby Kovu's health (and there's no guarantee if their search was successful or not). This is because after cubs are born, they feed off their mother's milk until they reach the appropriate age to consume meat. I'm pretty sure by the time Kovu met Kiara, he was old enough to consume meat. But how much meat he ate per day compared to a Pridelander's diet is the bigger question.

[Ninaroja]

I was going to throw in the argument that Zira says "Kovu was the last born before you exiled us to the outlands", but then I remembered that it is unknown if the outsiders were exiled straight away after Scar's defeat or some time after, maybe even after Kiara's presentation.

BUT, I remembered this deleted scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cctODMSw ... lpage#t=73

Zira talks about Scar "taking Kovu in" and "hand choosing him", which would mean that Scar and Kovu were alive at the same time. Also, Vitani and Nuka have just returned from Kiara's presentation, which would mean she is younger than the three of them.

Though, maybe all the above is the reason it was deleted, since there must have been a few months gap between Kiara's presentation and her going out alone for the first time, and Kovu, Vitani and Nuka look nothing different.

EDIT: Zira also refers to Kovu's being the chosen one as Scar's dying wish, though I don't see how Scar could have had a dying wish, seeing as he was eaten...
Probably just too many plot-holes for one scene

[Meskhenet]

I have chosen... [quote="poll"]Kovu and Vitani are the same age as Kiara, so Kovu couldn't have been handpicked by Scar. Zira's just cray cray.[/quote] because Kovu couldn't have been handpicked by Scar because if Zira was exiled after Kovu was born than that means Scar would've been dead before Kovu was born. (Of course, that is just my theory) And in order for Kovu, Vitani and Kiara to be the same age then Zira would probably be born around the same time Kiara was. Which means Zira probably fabricated the whole: "He [Kovu] was hand-chosen by Scar to follow in his paw-steps and become a king!