Episode 14: Bunga and the King.

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Elton John"]I dont want tlk to be a gritty drama...[/quote]

Agreed. If a remake removes itself to far from what it was originally. it will not resonate with the audience. I would love for the average movie goer to view The Lion King as seriously and deeply as I do, but in an effort to skew Lion King in a more adult direction and cause it to no longer be a family film. Would be a bigger slap in the face to the movie we all know and love. Than Maleficent was to Sleeping Beauty.

[quote="Ninclow"]Under normal circumstances, I'd agree, but one thing is animals being in trouble and him having to lend out a helping paw, but to hear that your own father had fallen down a sinkhole, which potentially means he could have died during the fall, ought to get more of a reaction out of him. One thing is "smart beyond his years", but in many respects, he's still a cub/kid. He's not sufficiently treated as such by the show, in my opinion, but still.

Even a person of great self-control have their limits, and I think that it makes more believable reaction, especially from a cub, to loose his head if harm comes to those of whom he are fond.[/quote]

I see your point, but as a The Leader of The Lion Guard Kion is faced with dangers and disasters more so than most cubs his age. I also think Simba's initial disapproval of Kion's Lion Guard has instilled a sense of duty before all else in Kion. I think this serves to enable Kion to emotionally distance himself from situations and react to things logically. Even though it was Kion's father that was in potential danger, Kion knew that the danger was only potentially serious. All those thing factored into his decision not to immediately rush to his father's aid. Also I think Kion prides himself on being a good leader, so even if his was an emotional basket case on the inside he will not show that in front of his team. In fact thus far the only emotion that Kion has ever let his team see get him out of his zone is when his confidence falters and he doubts himself.

[Ninclow]

[quote="Elton John"]I dont want tlk to be a gritty drama...[/quote]

What's gritty about a son getting genuinely distraught about his father being in danger? Was Simba gritty when he desperately looked for Mufasa when he himself had been brought to safety and Mufasa knocked down? Was it Gritty when Simba rushed for find Mufasa after Scar threw his brother to his death?

[quote="SimbasGuard"]Yet, he has not faced the prospect of harm coming to anyone he cares about. Sure, he cares about his friends in the Guard, yet none of them has ever been in 'real danger' because they have always had each other. When Kion was to help Kiara when Janja tricked her during their meeting, he ran to catch up with her. The conversation with Mufasa was so brief that it seemed like he almost suspected to reach her before she even arrived at the agreed place of meeting. And even if he hadn't reached her in time, Janja planned to held her captive, not hurt her, so in a sense, she was not in any 'grave' danger.

I see three scenarios here:
1.The Lion Guard would works out a plan to save her and goes out on a rescue mission.
2. Simba returns, rally the lionesses and simply goes and get her himself.
3. Someone informs the duo at HAKUNA MATATA falls that Kiara are in trouble, and when they start panicking, "Oh, no! Kiara! What shall we do!" someone agrees the hyena are pretty nasty indeed, they even had the nerve to call Pumba a 'pig'. Then sit down and enjoy the show. xD

[quote="SimbasGuard"]I also think Simba's initial disapproval of Kion's Lion Guard has instilled a sense of duty before all else in Kion.[/quote]

But he's still a cub, and Simba is still his Dad. Its unrealistic.

[quote="SimbasGuard"]I think this serves to enable Kion to emotionally distance himself from situations and react to things logically.[/quote]

Meaning that either, it was what I personally would call bad writing or an intentional attempt to portray Kion as carrying some psychopathic traits.

[quote]Even though it was Kion's father that was in potential danger, Kion knew that the danger was only potentially serious.[/quote]

What kid would like that? Heck, what kind of ADULT would think like that? Are people in danger, you do your utmost to do something about it. When my cousin was ten, let's call him Mike, my aunt one evening took her son and fled their home and lived under hidden address for months because my uncle hit her, and reportedly had threatened to hit the kid too, more than once. Now, recognizing this as a abusive relationship having been going on for years, I figured that if my uncle finally had put a hand on Mike, that would have been the last drop for my aunt and convinced her to go. Being close to the kid, whom I personally regarded as a little brother, I called my job and reported myself sick with the flu in order to spend a whole day on my bike, moving around the area Mike had lived, hung out with his friends and went to school on the off-chance that my uncle had hurt him.

Living on a hidden address and away from my uncle, I knew that in a probability, Mike was just fine, and even if he had been hit by my uncle, it was about a week before I heard about the split up and he would be out of reach from a violent father. Still, I didn't care if if the danger he was in was just 'potentially' serious; they didn't pick up when I called them, I couldn't find Mike, his friends and schoolmates hadn't seen or heard from him for a week, and I still couldn't calm down before I was sure he was okay. I took a whole month for me to get in touch with them and learn how they were doing and more about what had happened, and that was the first time in almost thirty days I got a full night's sleep.

And we was cousins who saw each other about three to four times a month, can you imagine people reacting any different to danger to their own 'main' families? If my Dad was in a car accidents, I'd rush off to the hospital in a frenzy of horror until I knew more, I would hope he wasn't seriously injured, but I wouldn't be all calm, thinking 'ah, he's probably okay'. No one does that. It reduces how believable Kion is as a character.

[quote="SimbasGuard"]All those thing factored into his decision not to immediately rush to his father's aid. Also I think Kion prides himself on being a good leader, so even if his was an emotional basket case on the inside he will not show that in front of his team.[/quote]

They're not only team members, they are his friends. None of them would be even the slightest inclined to have a lower opinion on Kion, as a leader or otherwise, for having 'panicked and ran, panicked an ran!' when something happens to his family. Heck, Ono appeared more worried than Kion, and that's just not right.

[quote="SimbasGuard"]In fact thus far the only emotion that Kion has ever let his team see get him out of his zone is when his confidence falters and he doubts himself.[/quote][/quote]

Have we ever seen him act any differently in his 'off duty' hours? Ever?

[Elton John]

I'm very confused as to who you are responding to.

It says my name but Simbasguard said all that stuff and the quoting is all funny and *mind explodes*

[Ninclow]

How on earth did I manage that? Sorry, I think I fixed it now. ^^'

[PrincessKiara]

I really enjoyed this episode, and along Can`t Wait To Be Queen, it`s one of my favourites so far.
The mother-daughter interaction between Nala and Kiara was wonderful, I really hope we get even more of that soon. Kiara having to get saved twice from falling into the sink hole was a bit too much for my taste, they could have skipped the second time, as the first (when the hole first appeared) was so dramatic, and both her parents helped her (loved that!) so I felt having Fuli help Kiara the second time was just thrown in to show that Fuli`s "special ability" is her speed. I just don`t like Kiara being put in situations where she needs to be rescued all the time, in SP it`s shown that she is capable of taking care of herself.

Simba being annoyed by Bunga is comedy gold in my eyes, I feel he reflects many fans attitude towards the honey badger - though I don`t mind them getting along a bit better. I also liked how Simba demanded respect from Bunga, being the king of the Pridelands. Just because Bunga is Kion`s friend and a member of the Lion Guard does not mean he can disrespect the ruler.

As someone else mentioned, it was lovely hearing Simba say Nala`s name. Correct me if I`m wrong, but Simba only speaks Nala`s name twice in TLK ("Hi, Nala!" and "Nala, we`ve been through this, I`m not the king.") and none at all in SP. As for Simba`s new voice, Rob Lowe, I think he`s alright. Would have preferred Matthew Broderick naturally, but Lowe is okay overall. He has room for improvement, it`s obvious he`s not used to voice-over work.

Simba`s look has always bothered me in TLG, and I have a nitpick about Nala`s look as well. Her canine teeth are always showing when she speaks, and they look really large. Yes, I know a lioness has large teeth, but in TLK and SP, her teeth are smaller and usually only the canines in her lower jaw are visible when she`s talking. When her upper canine teeth are shown when she speaks it makes her look like a vampire or something Just a nitpick, but wanted to mention it.
On a positive note regarding Nala`s animation, this episode showed a lot of expression on her face, which I loved to see. Both as a cub and adult, Nala has very expressive facial features (less so in SP, when she usually looks either happy or worried) so seeing this transferred to TLG was a joy.

Overall, great episode.

[gothprincesskiara]

OMGOSH im so sorry I took forever to FINALLY get my review in on this one and boy do I need to catch up, ive been so busy from finish school to working like crazy at Party City cause of graduation season.

anyway here is my review from beginning to end.

ok so the sink hole scene did they try to replicate Mufasa on the rack wall on purpose or something? cause it sure reminded me of it. and Simba would have died if he fell that far down, especially with those rock on him, do we need to remember Nukas death? or am I being too realistic again?
Bung Bung Bung, well thats Bunga for you he still has alot to learn.
I king do and do not like how Simba is so practical is the word Im looking for? because for me it force the kid audience on how they should think and not like Bunga.
and stubborn is not the right word to use for Bunga it is more like brave and stupid as said in the film by Kiara.
And why doenst Simba have an bruises from getting hit by rocks ?
I guess that Sink hole tells us that the pridelands are always changing if you know what I mean?
Wow Bunga sure is not afraid to argue with anyone, maybe that is a little on the stubborn side I guess.
Im surprised that instead of crying Timon didnt think to use his Meerkat skills to get to Simba and Bunga to help them out.

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Ninclow"]But he's still a cub, and Simba is still his Dad. Its unrealistic.[/quote]

I understand that, but said cub is in charge is in charge of a security/rescue team. If he could not handle the emotional stress that goes with the job. Kion would be unable to do said job. I admit for a cub to have that level of focus is somewhat far fetched, but since from a story perspective I am willing to believe that said cub has a magical roar. It is far less of a stretch to believe that Kion can keep his head even if it his own family is in danger.

[quote="Ninclow"] Meaning that either, it was what I personally would call bad writing or an intentional attempt to portray Kion as carrying some psychopathic traits.[/quote]

I don't see how keeping your head in a emergency situation could be considered psychopathic. Whenever The Lion Guard has to deal with an emergency they assess the situation and do what they can to help those in trouble.

As for the real world example you gave. I fear any attempt by me to make some kind of counter point, could be perceived as belittling what you actually went through. So instead I will say Kudos to you for helping your family. That is truly admirable.

[quote="Ninclow"] They're not only team members, they are his friends. None of them would be even the slightest inclined to have a lower opinion on Kion, as a leader or otherwise, for having 'panicked and ran, panicked an ran!' when something happens to his family. Heck, Ono appeared more worried than Kion, and that's just not right.[/quote]

Excellent point. Although all Ono had told Kion at that point (and I paraphrase here) is that he thought The King had fallen in the sinkhole. Given that it had yet to be confirmed that his father had fallen, I think Kion's level of concern was acceptable.

[quote="Ninclow"]Have we ever seen him act any differently in his 'off duty' hours? Ever?[/quote]

Good point, since forming The Lion Guard we very rarely get to see Kion "off duty" for any length of time.

[Ninclow]

[quote="SimbasGuard"]I understand that, but said cub is in charge is in charge of a security/rescue team. If he could not handle the emotional stress that goes with the job. Kion would be unable to do said job. I admit for a cub to have that level of focus is somewhat far fetched, but since from a story perspective I am willing to believe that said cub has a magical roar. It is far less of a stretch to believe that Kion can keep his head even if it his own family is in danger. [/quote]

The difference for me, at least, lies in that Simba falling down into the sinkhole was less of a 'Dad's in trouble, let's go and help him!' type of situation and more of a 'Dad has fallen down a sinkhole, and I have no idea if he is okay" kind of a thing. I just feel like more fear for Simba's life was warranted.

[quote="SimbasGuard"]I don't see how keeping your head in a emergency situation could be considered psychopathic. Whenever The Lion Guard has to deal with an emergency they assess the situation and do what they can to help those in trouble.[/quote]

Okay, that was a laughably poor attempt of a joke from my part. Sorry. ^^'

[quote="SimbasGuard"]As for the real world example you gave. I fear any attempt by me to make some kind of counter point, could be perceived as belittling what you actually went through. So instead I will say Kudos to you for helping your family. That is truly admirable.[/quote]

I feel kind of crappy about mentioning it now. In hindsight, I see how others might perceive it as attention-seeking to write something so personal on a forum. And I'm not that kind of guy, really. I'm don't walk around with some inflated "see what I did, see how nice I am!" mentality. Sorry for putting you in a situation where you felt you couldn't properly express your opinion on the 'real life vs TLG' thing. It was stupid of me.

[quote="SimbasGuard"] Excellent point. Although all Ono had told Kion at that point (and I paraphrase here) is that he thought The King had fallen in the sinkhole. Given that it had yet to be confirmed that his father had fallen, I think Kion's level of concern was acceptable.[/quote]

Yeah, but Ono is the keenest of sight, and if he think he saw Simba fall into a sinkhole, he probably did. Thus, I'd really like to see, if not outright panic, at least some visible degree of outright concern from Kion. That's all. Not a "My Dad might be dead? I'd better go over there and look to be sure" attitude.

[quote="Ninclow"]Have we ever seen him act any differently in his 'off duty' hours? Ever?[/quote]

Good point, since forming The Lion Guard we very rarely get to see Kion "off duty" for any length of time.[/quote]

[PrincessKiara]

Not gonna stress with trying to include all the quotes here.

In regards to Kion`s reaction to the information that Simba might have fallen into a sink hole - I agree that he should have shown a BIT more concern/fear. Not panick or lose his head, but be a little more worried for the safety of his father. Kion is afterall just a kid, not a mature adult. If Cub Simba/Kiara had been told something similar about their respective fathers, they would have been more scared and upset than Kion seemed to be. I agree that as the leader of The Lion Guard, he is required to keep cool in dangerous and stressful situations, and I also know that Ono wasn`t 100% that it was Simba he had seen fall, meaning that Kion could "relax" until he knew if his dad was in danger or not. All that taken into consideration, I still believe that we would/should have been a touch more worried and concerned. It`s not a big deal though, nothing that ruins the episode, just wanted to weigh in.

As for Kion being off-duty - is he ever, really? We do see The Lion Guard during more relaxed moments, but that never lasts long. I don`t feel it`s that often we get to see Kion relax, unwind and just be a young, playful cub. It seems that being leader/part of The Lion Guard means you`re never really off-duty, you have to be ready to spring into action at a moments notice.

[gothprincesskiara]

um Kion just about almost had some off time when he was about to go the the Elephant concert but no they had to throw in a antelope stuck in mud situation, but then again when it comes to that and a sink hole on top of everything else, is it safe to say that ....life happens...I would have said #*$^ happens, you know what I mean, life happens, uh things happen, unfortunate stuff happens, right? at least in this episode but this might as well go for any TV show, oh never mind im just saying too much now .