Episode 14: Bunga and the King.

[Elton John]

I think the show is good for what it is. A tlk show on disney jr. The target audience is not the 20-30 year olds who watched the original film in theaters but they're working with the limitations of a pre-k show to create something that isn't completely vapid.

Kovu / nuka / vitani are eventually showing up. Characters that older fans know but newer fans don't. The fact that the writers are working with established canon instead of throwing everything out the window shows they are trying to make some of the content for an der audience.

To be blunt they could have ignored all previous canon, they could have made kion the first born of simba, they could have written out simba and nala and all the previous characters. they could have written out a lot of things that happened in tlk 1 because the could have easily gotten away with it. They didn't. Having this take place in between tlk2 is a little shakey but the fact that they are acknowledging a 20 year old dtv sequel and not retconning it shows that they aren't making this just for 4 year olds because 4 year olds don't care about continuity.

This show feels like they are trying to make something relatable to the adults who grew up with the movies who now have children. Something they can watch with their children. They haven't succeeded everywhere, the show as it is could have been much worse.

And I like how every episode has a musical number. Not all of them are memorable but it just doesn't feel like tlk without a broadway style musical number playing every 15-20 minutes.

I remember the producers of the show stating that because it is disney jr that it needs a musical number in between each ep or else they would have been forced to segment each episode with two mini episodes instead of a complete episode. As an example of what i mean, if you remember a nicktoon called rugrats. Each 'episode' was split in half with two completely different stories.

Also, we're going to get our new 'made for adults' tlk cgi / hybrid live action remake. It hasn't been announced but with how successful all the other disney la remakes have been it's inevitable.

Yeah, and considering how uh... Awful most of those live action remakes have been 'be careful of what you wish for' is a phrase i would use for the movie. Maybe the jungle book remake will convince me that disney can make a la remake that doesn't mess things up but until i do i will think of a potential tlk remake as something to dread.

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Elton John"]i will think of a potential tlk remake as something to dread.[/quote]

I agree completely, some things do not need to be remade.

As for Kion not having enough of an emotional reaction to hearing that his father had fallen in a sinkhole. Kion is smart enough to know that panicking is pointless, especially without all the information. Kion wanted to leave and go to his father's aid immediately, but would not shirk his responsibility to The Lion Guard. I thought it was very alert of Fuli to see Kion's unspoken concern, and assure him that the rest of The Guard could handled what remained of the antelope situation. If Simba had actually been actually hurt in his fall, we would have definitely seen more concern from Kion.

[Gaze]

I keep forgetting to post in this thread because I just don't have the energy to say everything I want to say about this episode. it's probably my favorite so far! I love that it connects more to the original films than the other episodes, in that we get to see more of Simba and Nala, and Simba's relationship with Timon and Pumbaa is expanded upon a bit. seeing Simba sing Hakuna Matata with his family and come to an understanding with Bunga made him seem more like the Simba we used to know, rather than the super-serious one we usually see in TLG.

[Ninclow]

[quote="SimbasGuard"][quote="Elton John"]i will think of a potential tlk remake as something to dread.[/quote]

I agree completely, some things do not need to be remade.

As for Kion not having enough of an emotional reaction to hearing that his father had fallen in a sinkhole. Kion is smart enough to know that panicking is pointless, especially without all the information. Kion wanted to leave and go to his father's aid immediately, but would not shirk his responsibility to The Lion Guard. I thought it was very alert of Fuli to see Kion's unspoken concern, and assure him that the rest of The Guard could handled what remained of the antelope situation. If Simba had actually been actually hurt in his fall, we would have definitely seen more concern from Kion.[/quote]

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree, but one thing is animals being in trouble and him having to lend out a helping paw, but to hear that your own father had fallen down a sinkhole, which potentially means he could have died during the fall, ought to get more of a reaction out of him. One thing is "smart beyond his years", but in many respects, he's still a cub/kid. He's not sufficiently treated as such by the show, in my opinion, but still.

Even a person of great self-control have their limits, and I think that it makes more believable reaction, especially from a cub, to loose his head if harm comes to those of whom he are fond.

[Squeely]

[quote="Elton John"]i will think of a potential tlk remake as something to dread.[/quote]

I thought the Jungle Book remake was really well-done, but with how subpar the original animated version was in certain respects (mostly, scenes dragging on too long here and there, Shere Khan not being given much motivation for hating man), it felt like there was plenty new to add, especially with books to draw from (Just so we're clear, I do still like the original Jungle Book and do still think it's a good film).

But every time I think of a TLK remake, I come up empty when trying to think of what they can add All I can think of is adding more songs to help give it weight (They Live in You, the reprise of Be Prepared, Endless Night, and Shadowland are the ones they should add imo) but I feel like even that would not be enough to warrant a remake. And the live-action remakes tend to use less songs, so even that doesn't seem likely.

On the bright side, at least they managed to give us real-life talking animals that doesn't look horrendously cheesy for once, and would expect a TLK remake to do the same.

[Gaze]

I have yet to see the new Jungle Book, but it does seem promising for what it is. still, I agree that a TLK remake along the same lines is probably unnecessary and makes me feel a little worried. mainly - I just don't see very much appeal in a version of TLK with hyper-realistic animal characters. the cartoony traditional animation is a vital part of what makes me love the original film. I've been imagining what it would look like, and thinking about the realistic plush toys that Disney would be producing....and it seems very jarring!

still, I have to look on the bright side of things, and it does seem like a remake would be a good opportunity to add more details or clear up plot holes. it'd be neat to see, for example: more scenes involving Sarabi and Mufasa raising Simba, more Sarafina (including maybe a look at Nala's father), an explanation of how Scar and the hyenas met and teamed up, a closer look at the Pridelands under Scar's reign (especially focusing on Sarabi, Nala, and the other lionesses)....perhaps even a flashback scene of Mufasa and Scar as cubs, showing us how Scar's bitterness towards his brother began. things like that.

this sort of remake seems very suitable for adding details or creating an even darker atmosphere in certain parts of the story. even if the format isn't the most desirable, any potential way of filling up plotholes and giving us more information about the TLK-verse can't be completely bad IMHO.

[Rollo]

Sadiki, you've pretty much described exactly what the remake of The Jungle Book did. It expanded on a lot of issues that were missing in the animated movie, things that could've helped to create a far more enriching story. To me, that's what made this remake solid. As someone who grew up loving the animated movie, I was genuinely touched to find how much I cared about Mowgli in the remake--not because of the affection I already had for his animated counterpart, but because of how much the story goes out of its way to really give him a personal journey and not just a physical one from one end of the jungle to the other. He's an orphan in search of his home, and he's up against a lot of threats. Not cartoony, singing threats, but genuinely scary antagonists. You root for him and his mission to make the jungle his home, because unlike in the 1967 version, you're actually given reason to show why it's so unfair that he isn't allowed to stay. You side with Mowgli. That was missing in the original movie.

As much as I hate to admit it, I do think a TLK remake could work if it focused less on the musical aspect (which seems to be pretty non-existent with these new remakes anyway) and more on the story. It doesn't necessarily have to be dark, but that is usually the way to go to make audiences care more about what's happening when they already perceive it as a kid's film, which many people do for TLK. I think the reason the new Jungle Book had to be darker is because it didn't want audiences to assume it was a children's film again; it wanted to give them a reason to care about the story and maybe show them a side to it they didn't understand before while also taking the story that was already there to new heights. More characters, and more depth for the characters that already exist helped greatly for this film.

I think a TLK remake could be successful if it focused heavily on the themes of the monarchy, familial conflict and spirituality--maybe even incorporating something with Timon and Pumbaa about having clashing beliefs, which is ultimately what they have with Simba. Digging deeper into that could certainly be interesting. I wouldn't rule it out just because the movie is so close to my heart. If a better TLK movie can be made, they should make it.

[Elton John]

A tlk remake without the musical numbers would be like cake without ice cream. Yeah cake on its own can be really good but the ice cream adds to it and makes it so much better.

[Rollo]

Not in a gritty drama, which TLK has the potential to be. Take 'I Wanna Be Like You' from the remake of TJB for example. It completely ruins the scene. It could've easily been read by Christopher Walken and turned into some sort of monologue, but for some reason they insisted he weakly sing it. One minute you have a giant King Louie sizing up Mowgli in the dark with eerie music playing, next minute Christopher Walken is scatting. It's surreal, and not in a good way.

[Elton John]

I dont want tlk to be a gritty drama...