Feminism

[SlayerOfLight]

[quote="TheBlueQueen"]^ And I say it isn't. Women in the developed world certainly have come far, but there are still issues that need to be addressed. You can find it bull all you like, but I know firsthand it isn't. I personally know many young women who have experienced harassment or otherwise been mistreated because of their gender. I, myself, have had unpleasant experiences because of my gender. When I was a little girl, even though my parents told me I could be whatever I wanted to be, I still thought there were things women couldn't do because it wasn't "normal." I thought leadership positions were for men and subordinate positions were for women. I didn't even question it. The culture I've grown up in has made me ashamed of my body. It made me hate other women. It made me terrified to be around unknown men because we don't define consent well enough to our sons. It's made me hate being female. The way we still culturally view women is not flattering or okay, from the way we objectify women in the media, to the way we insult women's sexuality, to the way we say a woman was "asking for it" when she gets raped because she was wearing revealing clothing. Every little cultural thing in the way we view women may not seem like much on its own, but it's all one part of a much deeper and much more troubling cultural issue. Yes, women's rights certainly need to be more immediately addressed in countries where women are treated like utter garbage. That's where it's certainly needed the most. But there are definite issues here that should not be ignored.[/quote]

Sounds like you and those young women you speak off just have a bad habit of walking into assholes then. Assholes are everywhere and women are no exception, they can also be pretty bad to towards men. Obviously those assholes we speak off don't represent the majority of all men, and of course not every man out there is gonna rape you or anything. But seriously, the thing about feminists that bothers me the most is that they often (correct me if I'm wrong) refuse to be friends with men and usually ONLY prefer to befriend other women. This isn't cool for the average ''normal'' man that doesn't have any bad intensions. From my point of view women should be treated as queens, and in return men should be treated as kings. It's that simple, really.

But on the other hand I do agree that things need to be done against those cultures that violate women's rights (or human rights in general) however, in the place where I live I've never personally witnessed women being objectified by the media in a bad way. Yes it is true, in some ways men and women will never be equal. For example, men are physically stronger than women and this is a fact. But most feminists that point their fingers to the civilised world are just exaggerating the whole thing because I can quite assure you that most of us men certainly will NOT say that a woman asked for it after being raped, plus there are in fact plenty of women with leadership positions. Sorry to say but the things you brought up were just myths.

That being said, I personally think feminism is just paranoia and exaggeration. Don't get me wrong, you can be a feminist all you want though, and I'm not judging you as an individual or anything. I'm just voicing my opinion.

[Carl]

[quote]But seriously, the thing about feminists that bothers me the most is that they often (correct me if I'm wrong) refuse to be friends with men and usually ONLY prefer to befriend other women.[/quote]
Those are a very vocal minority, from my understanding. They give the whole movement a bad name.

Real feminism (though it certainly could use a better name these days) is all about making sure that no person is mistreated on account of gender. Unfortunately the ones who get the most attention are, in a way, like the Westboro Baptist Church--very loud and very hateful and very misrepresentative of the larger group. There are indeed few major issues in the west for women; it is pretty equal. However, any real feminist wants men and transgender people to be treated right as well as other women. The name of the movement is misleading, but it did used to have a lot more problems specifically relating to women to solve, and in many third world countries, it still needs to solve those problems.

As some have mentioned though, the movement is also trying to help men where they are treated unjustly, such as in custody hearings where it is easier for the woman to come out on top, and helping male rape victims to be taken seriously and treated with the respect a female one would be. Yeah, other countries do need this kind of thing more than Western ones; we do in fact have a smaller gender gap here, but the whole point is to eliminate that as much as possible, to the benefit of both genders.

[HereWeStand]

[quote="Killjoy Dixon"]The name of the movement is misleading[/quote]

This might be the problem here. When people picture feminists, they picture "CRUSH THE PATRIARCHY K I L L C I S W H I T E M E N", which is really not what the movement should be about... IMO maybe the West should adopt a more gender-neutral label now.

[FireAndSun]

[quote="MetalHeart"]
Sounds like you and those young women you speak off just have a bad habit of walking into assholes then. Assholes are everywhere and women are no exception, they can also be pretty bad to towards men. Obviously those assholes we speak off don't represent the majority of all men, and of course not every man out there is gonna rape you or anything. But seriously, the thing about feminists that bothers me the most is that they often (correct me if I'm wrong) refuse to be friends with men and usually ONLY prefer to befriend other women. This isn't cool for the average ''normal'' man that doesn't have any bad intensions. From my point of view women should be treated as queens, and in return men should be treated as kings. It's that simple, really.

But on the other hand I do agree that things need to be done against those cultures that violate women's rights (or human rights in general) however, in the place where I live I've never personally witnessed women being objectified by the media in a bad way. Yes it is true, in some ways men and women will never be equal. For example, men are physically stronger than women and this is a fact. But most feminists that point their fingers to the civilised world are just exaggerating the whole thing because I can quite assure you that most of us men certainly will NOT say that a woman asked for it after being raped, plus there are in fact plenty of women with leadership positions. Sorry to say but the things you brought up were just myths.

That being said, I personally think feminism is just paranoia and exaggeration. Don't get me wrong, you can be a feminist all you want though, and I'm not judging you as an individual or anything. I'm just voicing my opinion.[/quote]

I feel a lot of our differences are perhaps due to culture and the fact that you're male and I'm female. As I'm not from the Netherlands, I can't at all comment on how women are culturally viewed as a whole there, but I can comment on how women are viewed and treated here in the U.S, as I've lived here my whole life. Nothing I've brought up is a myth, at least not here. The way American women are viewed and treated here is far far better than in many other countries, but there are still troubling ways American women are viewed. Of course most men don't hate women or are a bunch of rapists, but that doesn't mean there still aren't troubling cultural views and trends that people may not even realize exist. Some men I know have been genuinely surprised if they really thought about the ways women here are viewed. It's not as simple as some people just being jerks. Yes, there are jerks everywhere, and that's just a fact of life, but it's as simple as that for women. Here, women are objectified to a very offending degree, and many women here have been harassed or catcalled at. I was once ogled at by an older man. Many girls I know have been sexually harassed at their jobs. Yes, some of this does happen to men. Harassment, sexual or otherwise, are not a totally female experience, but no man I know has ever been catcalled at. No man I know has ever been harassed by men who feel they have some sort of right to make women feel lesser because they just so happen to be male. Some of it is just perverts and people with severe issues, but a lot of it is due to culture and the "boys will be boys" mentality. (Small tangent I suppose, but I guess not really, since you're the one who brought it up. Most feminists, or at least the reasonable ones, don't hate men. I certainly don't. Some of my closest friends are male. The vast majority of men are good people, and certainly don't hate women. That doesn't mean they don't have unconscious cultural biases about women, but they certainly don't consciously view women as lessers.)

And with regards to women in leadership positions, yes there are women in leadership positions. Maybe Europe is just better on representing women in leadership positions, I'll have to look further into it, but here at least women aren't particularly well represented in leadership positions. And it's not quite as simple as women not wanting leadership positions. Like with everything, it's complicated and there a lot of factors that play into it. Girls here aren't particularly encouraged to seek leadership roles. I certainly never was growing up. Yes, most people aren't opposed to having female leaders, but the way women in charge are still viewed is not particularly flattering. We're either too bossy or not assertive enough. There's just no middle ground.

[Iberian]

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[Claws]

Nah, I think if you mean feminism as wanting to give women more rights to get to an equal point with men, it is a good idea, just as it is with gay rights and so on, but any movement that wants to bring some gender, ethny, econmical class, race, nationality or whatsoever over another shouldn't exist at all. I think there's many feminists that only joined that movement because they're angry at men, or angry at how history has treated women, and that's not what it should be about, it should be about living in harmony in a world of equal oportunities regardless of who you are, but not to be seen as a kind of revenge or oportunity above any other kind of human.

[Timon the great]

It's been a long while since I've said anything in this part of the forum.

But assuming that this is actually about gender equality and completely in my own words, I am in no way against that or sexist, as a guy. I've always seen females equal to males, and with what I've seen from my life already now. Even for my ideas of imaginary female characters, I completely see them No less if they had been created male instead.

There are of course, some movements such as gay rights that I do not support all. But such movements like gender equality seems to have always been a global issue since the turn of the century.

I can't, in no way, say nothing good has been done about gender equality in the real world. And with everything I'm seeing now out there, it seems to be making more substantial progress. Which is something I do think the world really does need to see.

It was even a hot topic with the Pope's UN speech (I think it was) last year. So that's definitely gotta count for something about this subject in today's world.

[KopsTheTerminator]

Why is it considered right to strive for equal rights across the sexes, but not for gays? Aren't they deserving of basic human rights too?