Paris Terrorist Attacks

[Simbaholikov]

[quote="HereWeStand"]Apparently the terrorists have been revealed to be actually EU citizens so far and not refugees, and the Egyptian passport found actually belonged to a victim.[/quote]

More reading: http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/ ... m=webfeeds

So let's stop the senseless xenophobia shall we?

[Regulus]

Ooooooh. That's interesting. That's really interesting.

So, what, are you suggesting that people from the western world can do awful things too? Naaaaah, that would be preposterous. There's no way. But... supposing that's true, if it's our own people that do it, then how can we go to war with the people we don't like? Come on you guys, we gotta go to waaaaaaar!

[SlayerOfLight]

[quote="HereWeStand"]Apparently the terrorists have been revealed to be actually EU citizens so far and not refugees, and the Egyptian passport found actually belonged to a victim.[/quote]

Even if the Paris attackers were truly EU citizens, that would merely be another reason to stop the mass immigration of muslim refugees and to NOT adopt them into Western society, because they're all influenced by the same non-domestic ideals that promote terrorism and thus only raise the terrorist threat level. Besides, the fingerprints from the Paris bomber match those of a man who entered through Greece, so that makes me doubt the credibility of this one EU official. I'd rather wait for the full report, because we all know how deceitful those europhiles can be.

[Azdgari]

If in fighting for our principles we violate them, then we have no principles to fight for at all. If our response to terrorism is to forsake those people who need help most, who are fleeing for their lives from warzones, then no matter what happens, we've lost.

I've often wondered how people could justify genocide. It's actually frightening present in our daily lives; when people aren't like us or don't share our origins, we view them as sub-human. In my country, we have our own immigration crisis with an inflow from central America, families fleeing destitute poverty and horrifying systemic gang violence. But many people in my country can simply label them 'undocumented' and feel no qualms about denying them human rights, feel perfectly comfortable sending them back (and I don't mean to be melodramic, only to be realistic) to their deaths.

This is the same problem that countries in Europe face now. If you are comfortable saying that hundreds of thousands of innocent refugees should be turned away from an opportunity at a better life and ignored only because there is a chance that terrorists can (and no doubt will) attempt to use their migration as cover for their acts, then square with yourself that you value your life over theirs simply because you had the fortune to be born in Europe (or wherever it may be) and not to the wartorn Middle East (or central America or anywhere, for that matter), and that in evoking this reaction, you dehumanize refugees the same way that ISIS dehumanizes you. It's a vicious cycle that ends only when we have empathy for one another not because of what we look like, what we believe (within nonviolent reason, of course), or where we're from, but because we are human.

[SlayerOfLight]

I wouldn't say that I value my life over theirs because I am born here. Rather, my reason for opposing the mass intake of refugees is because I don't want Europe to become ''Al-Europastan''. We either help the TRUE REFUGEES (those that won't come here for economic benefits) only by supporting them in their own region, or we shouldn't help at all. Its that simple, really. Sacrifices need to be made either way.

[ScarsLove]

As someone from the United States, I haven't even seen half of what a European of any country sees on a daily basis. Everyday thousands upon thousands of refugees take shelter in your countries, away from the war torn Middle East. It's to my understanding that the Syrian crisis is as bad as the refugee crisis since WW2. Seeing as that this topic is still relevant and very much on the minds of millions of people across the world, I think I'll share my opinion.

Before I do, I'd like to say that I'm by no means an islamaphobe or xenophobe. I love multiculturalism and foreign customs different from the USA. I believe in helping others when you can and when it makes sense to. But in reference to these refugees, I say no. The USA should take example of what's happening to Europe and close the borders to refugees before it's to late.

Many claim to be refugees just to reap the rewards of free welfare benefits while refusing to assimilate to said countries & regions. I understand that there are legitimate people in need within these groups, but you have to understand that some supposed "refugees" could easily be ISIS soldiers, extremists, terrorists bent on destroying everything your countries stand for, killing your families and loved ones, attempting to drag down the western world to their 13th century way of thinking and make you bend your knees to the will that is Islam. The media likes to represent all these refugees as helpless women and children, rather than providing a more realistic approach to things and taking a look at the negative outcomes that partake when taking in millions, upon millions of these refugees.

If we do open our borders to efugees, how many will it take before enough is enough? A million? Ten Million? Fifty Million? What of the people on our own soil?

[S1mb4 D4 L10n]

Any culture that encourages the execution of LGBT people and apostates, female genital mutilation, amputation for petty crime, the subjugation of women as third class citizens, and refuses to defend such basic ideals of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, deserves to be ridiculed.

If that makes me "xenophobic." Then sure! I'm xenophobic of xenophobic cultures.

I really wish it would work to be able to integrate all those who wanted to live in Europe into Western culture, but when a large percentage of these migrants are molded in societies that punish people for criticizing Islam, it would be naive to think that they would A-OK with it.

And the statistics reflect this:
26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam".
(http://comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/)
(http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60)

If only the world could come together and hold hands and sing Kumbaya.... except that's not how real life works

[Carl]

Yes that culture is not conducive to integrating people into western societies, but not everyone fleeing those places share the beliefs of the majority. Yes we have to be careful about these people, but Islam itself is not the problem. Organized religion is. Things were similar under Christianity in the past and could easily be again.

And I'm sure there'd be fewer Muslims in Western areas who felt the bombings are justified if there was more tolerance for their faith in the west. Let's not forget that there are plenty of Christians in the US who are against freedom of religion, encourage execution of LGBTs, and who'd generally be happy if the US were more similar to the Middle East. (They won't admit that last part, but their ideology matches up and I have met some more than once.) These people feel that burning down mosques, bombing abortion clinics, and murdering suspected LGBTs or Muslims is justified. No they aren't the majority like the backwards thinkers of the Middle East, and yes, we do have measures to stop them from restricting peoples' rights, but they do exist.

Let's also not forget that Central Asia is predominantly Islamic and those people are completely unrelated to this discussion.

Just to be clear, I'm not attacking anyone here or saying any of you are against Islam; I'm just trying to remind people that jerks exist everywhere and come in all faiths and colors. The problem occurs when backwards thinking is encouraged, regardless of religious affiliation, and regardless of where the people come from.

As sad as it is, it is difficult to find the right way to handle situations like this because we cannot allow backwards thinking in our progressive countries, but we also can't afford to give up our humanity and refuse to help people.

[S1mb4 D4 L10n]

Christianity and Islam both have verses many verses the justify violence and some verses that call for peace. Despite this the magnitude of Christian terrorism in the modern world is simply not on the same scale as Islamic terrorism. This is due some complex factors in the development of the Middle East and the Western World, as well as the economic status of the nations involved (3rd world Christian African countries commit similar atrocities).

But once again, they are not nearly on the same scale. There have been around 8 murders relating to Anti-Abortion violence in the United States since the 1990s, whereas there have been 1600 people killed in Jihadi attacks just this month alone.

Also, perspectives of Americans towards LGBT rights and perspectives of Muslims in the Middle East and Africa are still significantly different. In the United States, gay marriage has been legalized on a federal level. The majority of LGBT people don't even have the right to exist yet in some of these countries, and face a population where well over 80% of people would rather see them gone, as well as actually have a government that is sanctioned to publicly execute or imprison them. The majority of Americans approve of homosexuality (http://www.pewforum.org/religious-lands ... sexuality/) and gay marriage.



Jerks exist in all religions, that is true, but in the modern world there is a massive difference of scale that cannot be ignored.



These are statistics from just the past few days...

I'm open to criticize any organization or religion that sanctions violence and commits it. If I was me in the 16th century Western Hemisphere, I'd be up in arms over forced conversion systems like the Enconmienda and the genocide of Amerindians. I certainly wouldn't say that the Europeans were justified because of the fact that nearly all cultures and peoples have committed atrocities. Just as now, widespread Islamic terrorism shouldn't be whitewashed or swept under the rug because Christians have had their own history. We are able to simultaneously recognize that nearly all religions have had their violent histories, and that Christianity was once at the peak of this, but that Islam is now at the peak of theirs.

To clarify, I don't believe that all borders should be closed. I advocate for moderate immigration policy. I also think that it is important for us normal citizens not be fearful after attacks like the one in Paris on Friday, but to be defiant in celebrating our own values.



"They have weapons. Screw them! We have champagne."

[Leviara_Lioness]

ok, well I see everyones thoughts.. I say this, theres no simple solutions to this issue,, but we need to use common sense.. now heres something I'm gonna update you on the refugee situation, I'm neutral on it now, its my only way of dealing with it, with out being over emotional, though I was surprised a bit, ok I was shocked to say it right Because in my US State in Our City, They are going to put 2000 Refugees here, where I live, to our northwest section of our city, not very far from us, less than 1/4 mile away....
my dad told me this, this morning at breakfast.. non the less I just sat there.. a little on the stunned side , but I reacted calmly as I could, with no prejudices showing, I just did what i could to swallow the reality of what I was told and what is going to happen.. .. They are going to do this between mid/Late December and early/mid January 2016.... The Obama administration, is in sever conflict currently with congress as Obama is pushing his agenda for the bringing in of 250,000 refugee's, while congress in trying to block his attempts, which there are currently already 20,000 known here in the US.. .(2000) of which are being moved close by, directly into my city I live in less than 1/4 mile away to our northwest sector of our city.. I'm just going to do the best I can to make the best of my situation..

Theres not allot more I can say to it...