Gender Equality

[UncoordinatedPisces]

So, in my Sociology lessons recently there has been more talk about whether males and females are equal in today's society. When I say today's society, I'm referring to the Western world because I'm sure we're all aware that the Eastern world is still extremely patriarchal.

I was wondering on people's opinions about this. I consider myself a feminist in many ways so my opinions are going to be all quite negative (in terms of thinking women are still unequal). I'll write them in another post, or in a response to a post one of you make in this thread.

Thanks for your time! ^^

[DGFone]

I often find myself wondering how much this emphasis on equality actually hurts progress.

To answer the question: No. The genders are not equal.

However, equality doesn't mean a 50/50 gender divide among all work forces and whatnot with the genders. It means that all the opportunities that men get, so do women. By the way, at least in the US, that includes the draft.

So why do I feel like all this talk of equality actually generally hurts it? Because my opinion about people is simple: You're a human. You know what you can and want do. Do it.

All this talk of having increased diversity and gender equality only increases public awareness that we are different. Whether gender or race, being constantly told that we're different, while at the same time striving for equality, is in my opinion, a conflicting schedule. If you want equality, stop pointing out that that person over there is of a different gender. That one over there has a different skin color.

We are all humans. Get over it.

[UncoordinatedPisces]

By that theory DG, gender inequality would go on without being confronted or acknowledged. Being told that I'm a woman and your a man would not make me think "Oh, I'm so incredibly different from you", I'd just accept it because that's what we are.

People who want to marry someone of the same sex are legally allowed to in the UK (this is very recent). If the LGBT community had not talked about their inequalities compared to heterosexual people, they wouldn't of achieved this.

Women in the UK received equal voting rights to men in 1928; if they had not acknowledged their inequality and publicised it, that wouldn't of happened.

While I agree that we're all humans and that we should get over, sitting back and saying it isn't doing anything about it.

[quote="DGFone"]
However, equality doesn't mean a 50/50 gender divide among all work forces and whatnot with the genders. It means that all the opportunities that men get, so do women. [/quote]

I am aware of this xD

[FlipMode]

[quote="Amy"]
People who want to marry someone of the same sex are legally allowed to in the UK (this is very recent). If the LGBT community had not talked about their inequalities compared to heterosexual people, they wouldn't of achieved this.
[/quote]

Aren't gay rights different though?
Also I have a question, in today's society (Western World) what rights or opportunities do I have as a man that you don't as a woman?

[UncoordinatedPisces]

[quote="Flip_FTW"][quote="Amy"]
People who want to marry someone of the same sex are legally allowed to in the UK (this is very recent). If the LGBT community had not talked about their inequalities compared to heterosexual people, they wouldn't of achieved this.
[/quote]

Aren't gay rights different though?
Also I have a question, in today's society (Western World) what rights or opportunities do I have as a man that you don't as a woman?[/quote]

Not much different.

It's not so much opportunties, is more about the way women are viewed compared to men in terms of what they are capable of, what they traditionally can or can't do.

For example, the current UK government. 51% of the population here are females, but only 22% of all MPs are female. Why is this the case? Why doesn't our government reflect society? Popular opinion is that women are not interested in politics; you may not think that but I'm sure many people do. The only female PM we've had, Thatcher, didn't do the best of jobs and so people naturally assume the next female PM is going to be like that.

It's more people's views than opportunities. If you get what I mean. I'm not that good at having discussions because I find it a little bit difficult to put my opinions into words, so do excuse me if I ramble on about things that don't make sense xD

[Regulus]

^ I'll agree with that. Society does tend to place limitations on the way women can act.

But... that applies to men, too. How many male counselors do you know? What about psychiatrists, teachers, or babysitters? As a guy, if I decided that my goal in life is to become a house-husband and cook, buy groceries, and look after my children while my wife works in politics, I wouldn't be able to do that. Society would tell me that I need to man up and be a man, you know.

If we're going to talk about gender equality, let's stop focusing on the hardships of females and look at it from the perspective of equality. I'd call it gender bias, because that seems a little more accurate. Everyone who has ever lived in a human society has had this problem.

[UncoordinatedPisces]

^ I'll totally agree with you there as well actually. I should of mentioned the stereotypes men have to face all the time. I want things to improve for both men and women.

[DGFone]

[quote="Amy"]
[quote="DGFone"]
However, equality doesn't mean a 50/50 gender divide among all work forces and whatnot with the genders. It means that all the opportunities that men get, so do women. [/quote]I am aware of this xD[/quote]
[quote="Amy"]
For example, the current UK government. 51% of the population here are females, but only 22% of all MPs are female. Why is this the case? Why doesn't our government reflect society? Popular opinion is that women are not interested in politics; you may not think that but I'm sure many people do. The only female PM we've had, Thatcher, didn't do the best of jobs and so people naturally assume the next female PM is going to be like that.

It's more people's views than opportunities. If you get what I mean. I'm not that good at having discussions because I find it a little bit difficult to put my opinions into words, so do excuse me if I ramble on about things that don't make sense xD[/quote]

This is exactly what I mean by that gender equality does not translate to a 50/50 divide in the workforce. Keep in mind that both physically and mentally, men and women are different, so even if opportunities exist, it doesn't mean that they will be taken. There will always be jobs that one gender will prefer over the other, so complaining that they don't represent the people is not a good argument.

I am not saying that there are no greater barriers in politics for females, but even if there were, it's a bad assumption to make that even then, the government will truly reflect the people. Remember first and foremost: a politician needs to want to go into politics. For all we know, perhaps politics is more of a turn-on for men than woman.

Interest in politics doesn't translate to actually wanting to be in politics. These are completely different.

[Gemini]

This seems to have been dead for a while, but it's still near the top and I feel like I have something to say about this, sooooo... yeah.

[quote="Regulus"]^ I'll agree with that. Society does tend to place limitations on the way women can act.

But... that applies to men, too. How many male counselors do you know? What about psychiatrists, teachers, or babysitters? As a guy, if I decided that my goal in life is to become a house-husband and cook, buy groceries, and look after my children while my wife works in politics, I wouldn't be able to do that. Society would tell me that I need to man up and be a man, you know.

If we're going to talk about gender equality, let's stop focusing on the hardships of females and look at it from the perspective of equality. I'd call it gender bias, because that seems a little more accurate. Everyone who has ever lived in a human society has had this problem.[/quote]

This is true. These are common stereotypes, definitely, but like all stereotypes they don't always hold true... especially now, since a lot of things are changing in regards to our society. Perceptions can be altered over time. Going off of your examples - both my counselor and 5/6 of my teachers were male last year, not to mention (perhaps most importantly) I was raised by my father, who was a single dad. It certainly wasn't the norm, but I don't think anybody ever told him to 'man up' about it. Raising children is a tough job, regardless of what gender you are. And the thing is, sometimes personal circumstances cause the male to be the one raising the children. Although it can seem 'strange' to us when gender stereotypes are reversed, it's really only because that's not 'how things usually go' and it seems like a novel idea. But again, the role of a single parent is pretty much the same across the board, whether they're a single mom or a single dad.

As for me, personally, I've always kind of been in the boat with DG, in that I don't really care what gender a person is, just as I don't really care for what gender I am (read: was born into without my consent). It's not the first thing I look at. In addition, I have honestly come to believe that you should be able to love somebody regardless of which chromosomes they have - this, too, is becoming more and more of a possibility as time goes on. Overall, I've just always hated the idea of gender as a determining factor for anything aside from a strictly practical anatomical viewpoint, as while I acknowledge that there are some basic physical differences between males and females, I don't really have a strong gender identity (probably because much of that identity is based off society and relations, and as for me, I didn't socialize well with females growing up, nor did I have a central mother-figure in my life - thus it was kind of a moot point since I was under no pressure to be 'feminine').

Fact is, as long as someone isn't telling me, or anybody else, what they can or cannot do based solely off their gender or any other similar social factor, then I don't care. As it has been said, there will always be some differences between the genders due to psychological and physiological differences - that's simply a fact we cannot change, and that can affect the jobs men/women get as well as their behaviors - but as long as it's not used to disparage another gender or cause blatant sexism, then again, it's not something I'm worried about. Although I am extremely grateful for the vision and work of early feminists, and I believe that the achievements they accomplished were extremely important, I think a lot of 'feminism' today, at least in the US/Western countries, is just people making mountains out of molehills... no offense intended, of course.

I'll just keep being a person like everyone else either way. :s