Westboro Baptist Church

[Carl]

Okay, I know most people already hate these guys, but I'm really disgusted with them right now for numerous reasons. The church's founder recently died and they are asking that his funeral not be picketed. Take a look at the image below:

may contain offensive language: show

I'm going to quote the message of this image in case it gets removed at some point:

[quote]The controversial Westboro Baptist Church has asked the public not to picket the funeral of its founder, Pastor Fred Phelps, who died this week at 84, and "have a little decency and respect" for his family and friends.

In a statement posted on its website, the Topeka, Kan.-based churchㅡ home to America's most hated familyㅡ claimed members of the public have threatened to protest Phelps' funeral just as the church protested the funerals of others.

"This is a very difficult time for us," the statement reads, "so we ask that the public have a little decency and respect by allowing us to mourn a great man who served God and tried to protect America from the threat of fags and perverts (i.e. gays and US soldiers)."[/quote]

In case anyone doesn't know, Westboro is well-known and widely hated for picketing the funerals of American soldiers and even children who have been murdered to spread the message that supposedly these people deserved to die because we allow gays to live in America. They claim it is punishment from God and even have a post on their website that reads, "Thank God for 4 more dead troops. We are praying for 4,000 more."

Now, I'm not saying any family, even them, should be picketed at a funeral. But if anyone deserves it, it would definitely be them, and they don't exactly have the right to ask for decency and respect at his funeral after having disrespected and having had no decency for so many other families at the funerals of their loved ones.

They literally just try to use the Bible to spread hate, and, though I'm not religious as many of you know, I find it disgusting. They are not properly representing the religion, by any means and even had a poll at one point asking "who should God hate next?" because they feared they weren't recruiting enough young people by being anti-gay.

This all actually reminds me of a verse in the Bible:

[quote="1 Timothy 4"]
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.[/quote]


My my my, what is this? Sounds to me like the Bible says you can't ban marriages... no wait, that's literally what it says.

[quote]Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry,[/quote]

Fred Phelps was allegedly a Bible literalist. No Bible literalist can be so full of hate and try and ban gay marriage. It's literally in the Bible that you can't do that. It's the humans' place to let God judge and Jesus says to love thy neighbor as thyself. These people aren't Christians, they aren't religious people at all. They're just trolls hiding behind religion, and they, along with others who ignore verses like this one and spread hate, are making a bad example of all Christians.

I try not to hate any people, and don't have anything against those who are actually religious, but these people are hard not to hate.

No human with any decency would ever say the deaths of their own soldiers and the murder of children is a good thing, for any reason. Especially not if the soldiers and children in question aren't even the kind of people they're against.

[Regulus]

Here's something I wrote previously on the subject. I think it sums things up pretty well.

[quote="Regulus"]If my understanding of WBC is correct, it's like this:

Hey guys, I have this great idea for a sociology experiment. Let's take all of the most hateful people in the world, and send them to Texas. There, we can kill their brains with a death ray machine, until they have the intelligence of roughly a six year old. Then, for the experiment, we'll give them free reign to be hateful idiots out on the street. We'll record the actions of our test subjects to see how bad a human can be.

That's Westboro Baptist Church in a nutshell.

I'm pretty sure it's all a clever experiment set up by a group of sociologists. WBC is just the project codename. You guys just wait; the research paper will be published in a few years. It should be an interesting read.[/quote]

[Ninaroja]

"Have a little decency and respect"???

I honestly sometimes wonder if these people are real - they are a prime example of how religious texts and teachings can be distorted and chosen selectively to suit one's viewpoint. But seriously, the hypocrisy of that request just riles me up no end. The world has been all but screaming that message at them for years and time and time again they ignored it in order to spread their hatred. There's religious extremists in my country but I don't think they're anywhere near as bad as the WBC in terms of impact and intolerance.

[TheLionPrince]

I think you may be misinterpreting 1 Timothy 4. Here's the New Living translation that is more clearer in modern English than so the King James version:

[quote="1 Timothy"]Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. 2 These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead.

3 They will say it is wrong to be married and wrong to eat certain foods. But God created those foods to be eaten with thanks by faithful people who know the truth. 4 Since everything God created is good, we should not reject any of it but receive it with thanks. 5 For we know it is made acceptable by the word of God and prayer.[/quote]

So, the scripture is basically saying that in the days before Christ's return to Earth, there will be false ministers that will say it is a sin for any general person to get married or eat certain foods. But God has ordained those as holy. The Bible already condemns homosexuality in earlier passages, and in God's viewpoint, he most likely doesn't recognize it as a marriage since it's outside of his intention.

As for the Westboro Baptist Church, I cannot stand the living sight of them. They perverted the Word of God, and used it to preach hatred and intolerance of others. They have inflicted emotional distress upon hundreds of families, and dishonored our fallen men and women in combat. And I find it hilarious and hypocritical they want a "little decency and respect" for Fred Phelps's death, but where was that when they were not giving the same to families trying to bury their loved ones? I was especially angered at the Supreme Court that authorized their "ministry" as being defended by the First Amendment. Given that Fred Phelps was ex-communicated back in August 2013, his death may not be the end of this hate group, though his son stated the church has not had a leader in a long time. I'll pray they repent of their actions, but I wish we all give them no attention.

[Carl]

[quote="TheLionPrince"]I think you may be misinterpreting 1 Timothy 4. Here's the New Living translation that is more clearer in modern English than so the King James version:

[quote="1 Timothy"]Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. 2 These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead.

3 They will say it is wrong to be married and wrong to eat certain foods. But God created those foods to be eaten with thanks by faithful people who know the truth. 4 Since everything God created is good, we should not reject any of it but receive it with thanks. 5 For we know it is made acceptable by the word of God and prayer.[/quote]

So, the scripture is basically saying that in the days before Christ's return to Earth, there will be false ministers that will say it is a sin for any general person to get married or eat certain foods. But God has ordained those as holy. The Bible already condemns homosexuality in earlier passages, and in God's viewpoint, he most likely doesn't recognize it as a marriage since it's outside of his intention.[/quote]
And I think you may be misinterpreting it. Saying it is wrong to be married is exactly what's already happening. The verse doesn't specify who is told it is wrong to marry.

And as for the passages that supposedly condemn homosexuality, unless you're talking about something other than Romans, Corinthians, and Leviticus, there aren't any, because those don't say it is wrong. Romans says that God makes those who choose to believe in science over religion, or who just aren't Christians at all, gay to inconvenience them. Corinthians says that effeminate men (which does not mean gay, but woman-like) will not be allowed into heaven; this is because women were not allowed into heaven, as they were seen as possessions and not people. And Leviticus is property laws that forbids men from using sex to claim ownership over other men the way they would a woman, because women are possessions and not people. If we don't see women as possessions, then none of these verses are relevant any longer, as the people mentioned in Corinthians would have already been condemned to hell before God made them gay.

[quote]I'll pray they repent of their actions, but I wish we all give them no attention.[/quote]
This we can agree on. I'm pretty sure they are doing what they do simply for the sake of attention, which I guess means I shouldn't have made this thread, but oh well.

[TheLionPrince]

[quote="Julie Skywalker"][quote="TheLionPrince"]I think you may be misinterpreting 1 Timothy 4. Here's the New Living translation that is more clearer in modern English than so the King James version:

[quote="1 Timothy"]Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. 2 These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead.

3 They will say it is wrong to be married and wrong to eat certain foods. But God created those foods to be eaten with thanks by faithful people who know the truth. 4 Since everything God created is good, we should not reject any of it but receive it with thanks. 5 For we know it is made acceptable by the word of God and prayer.[/quote]

So, the scripture is basically saying that in the days before Christ's return to Earth, there will be false ministers that will say it is a sin for any general person to get married or eat certain foods. But God has ordained those as holy. The Bible already condemns homosexuality in earlier passages, and in God's viewpoint, he most likely doesn't recognize it as a marriage since it's outside of his intention.[/quote]
And I think you may be misinterpreting it. Saying it is wrong to be married is exactly what's already happening. The verse doesn't specify who is told it is wrong to marry.[/quote]

After doing a bit of research and thinking, the entire substance of 1 Timothy is Paul giving Timothy the directions on how to lead a church. Paul warns Timothy in the near future, they will be false believers that will turn from the faith, and instruct their followers to not get married. This is a definitely a prophetic warning of the Roman Catholic Church that have celibacy laws that forbid their priests from getting married. In fact, it was reported that in May 2012, a Catholic priest was excommunicated for being in a marriage.

God has always wanted his children to get married stating it is not right for man to be alone in Genesis. Paul encourages Christians to get married rather than being lustful in 1 Corinthians 7. It has nothing to do with homosexuals wanting to get married.

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]And as for the passages that supposedly condemn homosexuality, unless you're talking about something other than Romans, Corinthians, and Leviticus, there aren't any, because those don't say it is wrong. Romans says that God makes those who choose to believe in science over religion, or who just aren't Christians at all, gay to inconvenience them. Corinthians says that effeminate men (which does not mean gay, but woman-like) will not be allowed into heaven; this is because women were not allowed into heaven, as they were seen as possessions and not people. And Leviticus is property laws that forbids men from using sex to claim ownership over other men the way they would a woman, because women are possessions and not people. If we don't see women as possessions, then none of these verses are relevant any longer, as the people mentioned in Corinthians would have already been condemned to hell before God made them gay.[/quote]

No, I was referring to the entire Bible. As for the property laws, that passage still stands today since Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 7:4 that "The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife." Both husband and wife, as Paul writes, are in possession of each other. In Matthew 19, Jesus reiterates a passage in Genesis when he addresses what a marriage is: "They record that from the beginning 'God made them male and female. This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.'"

[Carl]

Well, admittedly, I have not read the whole thing, but, seeing as according to the Bible I have been condemned to hell since birth for being female and because my grandmother was born out of wedlock, I don't see a reason to. I was condemned at birth, so it doesn't matter what I do in the end. That said, marriage has legal benefits and is a legal institution; whatever any religion says about it is irrelevant on the legal scale, or should be, for fairness, considering that not all people have the same religion and no one chooses who they love. Religious doctrines should only be applicable to those of the religion who are willing to follow them. If you believe it is wrong, it shouldn't have to effect you, and if someone else does not, they should be free to not be held to those same religious rules.

And a country allowing those benefits to be extended to all (even if only in some areas) is certainly no excuse to delight in deaths of soldiers.

[SlayerOfLight]

It's never fun when someone dies, but I kinda understand why people are glad about it since Fred Phelps and his excuse for a church have given false interprentations of God and the bible with their messages of hatred. Even though homosexuality is condemned in the bible, it doesn't mean that Christians should hate gays. God loves the sinner but hates the SIN, and not the other way arround. The Westboro church and it's members are wolves in sheep's clothing, nothing more or less.

[Remorazz]

"Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister."
(1 John 4:20, 21 NIV)

The Westboro Basptist Church needs to read their Bibles...

[Luigi Severus]

I first found out about these guys when I found out they protested at a Justin Bieber concert in 2010, when he was only 16... That's what made me originally hate them, when I found out their asinine acts, I hated them even more, like, who the heck goes and protests funerals and thanks God for people dying? I am just so offended by these people, I also hate them even more when I saw they picketed One Direction... I hate Bieber and One Direction haters as much as these guys.