Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Re: Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Postby DGFone » February 5th, 2013, 7:21 am

Except for the usual "guns are not killing machines" argument. Just because all you know about guns is that they can kill people doesn't mean that it's what they only do, and it certainly doesn't mean that you need to ban them based on that ruling alone.

After all, don't knives kill people? Anything with a metal tip? Baseball bats? Bowling balls? All of these were used at one point or another to kill someone, and I am sure that, at least with knives, their murder rate is roughly the same as guns. Why don't we ban those all as well? :roll:
Image
DGFone
Got wings

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Watch me soar

Posts: 11871
Joined: March 14th, 2011, 6:14 am
Location: Flying several thousand feet off the ground.
Nickname(s): Planes, DGF, DG
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 138

Re: Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Postby Woeler » February 5th, 2013, 9:00 am

Guns are for killing and wounding.

Knifes are for cooking. Bats are for basebal.

These things can kill. Guns are made to kill. They can not be placed in the same category.
Woeler
User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Posts: 4936
Joined: August 29th, 2011, 2:10 pm
Location: Always on the move
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 120

Re: Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Postby Regulus » February 5th, 2013, 2:15 pm

[quote="DGFone"]Except for the usual "guns are not killing machines" argument. Just because all you know about guns is that they can kill people doesn't mean that it's what they only do, and it certainly doesn't mean that you need to ban them based on that ruling alone.

After all, don't knives kill people? Anything with a metal tip? Baseball bats? Bowling balls? All of these were used at one point or another to kill someone, and I am sure that, at least with knives, their murder rate is roughly the same as guns. Why don't we ban those all as well? :roll:[/quote]

These questions have already been answered in the past 10 pages. I guess I may as well just debate myself.

There actually is a slight flaw in my logic, which would almost entirely negate everything we've both said. But, oddly enough, you haven't found it. No one has.

Nobody needs guns to kill. Guns are designed to kill. Therefore, nobody needs guns. A gun ban does not affect anyone.

It's pointless. The flaw in the logic is that it can be used to take any position on the issue.

However, even that logic is flawed, for a very simple reason that, yet again, no one has even brought up. Guns are the most effective killing machines. Having a gun isn't necessary to kill, it makes it easier to kill.

And, as I said before, it just doesn't make sense for any 21st century society to be walking around half-cocked (pun intended).

That is not something that can be argued with, because it's more of an ethical/philosophical perspective. That's just what I believe, so of course I'm going to make it seem like your logic only supports mine.

And, by the way, watch Errand of Mercy when you get the chance. It's very relevant.
Regulus
Is differentiable...

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

But convergence is not guaranteed.

Posts: 10994
Joined: September 29th, 2011, 1:19 am
Location: W⋅N²=(40.498°)³, W²⋅N=(57.345°)³
Nickname(s): Reg, Regs, Last Person to Post
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 206

Re: Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Postby DGFone » February 5th, 2013, 5:45 pm

Just because you don't see a reason why you should walk around armed doesn't mean it's your right to enforce your beliefs upon others. Welcome to the US, a free country. Just because it allows you to do something doesn't mean you have to partake in the activity if you don't want to.

[quote="Regulus"] A gun ban does not affect anyone.[/quote] Except, you know, the people who need guns. Why do you think some of the loudest anti-gun ban states have, for some reason, at the same time smaller gun crime rates than the rest of the states? But seeing as I said this for the past 10 pages now, and you ridicule me for repeating myself, try reading what you posted for this entire topic. The only thing you guys ever say is "guns kill, so lets ban them". Hypocrite.

You have the states where people don't know what a gun is, don't know how to deal with one, and want to sweep them under the carpet in hopes that it will go away. The states that are most vocal about keeping their guns rights actually take into account the risks of guns and deem them not to be not so dangerous as to call for a ban.

People live in the US to live their lives as they want to. If you want to live where someone else tells you how to live your life, move somewhere else. And this I really do mean. If you are not happy in a free society, one that has risks, then feel free to move to a non-free society. Just leave us people who actually want to live our lives our own way alone.
Image
DGFone
Got wings

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Watch me soar

Posts: 11871
Joined: March 14th, 2011, 6:14 am
Location: Flying several thousand feet off the ground.
Nickname(s): Planes, DGF, DG
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 138

Re: Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Postby Regulus » February 5th, 2013, 6:40 pm

[quote="DGFone"]Except, you know, the people who need guns.[/quote]

But who needs a gun except to kill?

[crickets]

It is not a right to be able to kill someone, so saying that it is a right to own a gun designed specifically to do so is absurd. That is why I am completely disregarding freedom in this instance.

Don't get me wrong, freedom is great, but the freedom to shoot a bunch of people isn't something anyone needs.

If I could move to another country, don't think I wouldn't do it in a heartbeat.
Regulus
Is differentiable...

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

But convergence is not guaranteed.

Posts: 10994
Joined: September 29th, 2011, 1:19 am
Location: W⋅N²=(40.498°)³, W²⋅N=(57.345°)³
Nickname(s): Reg, Regs, Last Person to Post
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 206

Re: Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Postby Woeler » February 5th, 2013, 7:15 pm

[quote="DGFone"]People live in the US to live their lives as they want to. If you want to live where someone else tells you how to live your life, move somewhere else. And this I really do mean. If you are not happy in a free society, one that has risks, then feel free to move to a non-free society. Just leave us people who actually want to live our lives our own way alone.[/quote]
You mean ''If you want to live where others do care and where others are concerned about everyone's safety, move somewhere else''. You call the US a free society because they allow you to have guns. Somehow owning a gun overrules these freedoms I guess?:
-Gay marriage*
-Abortion*
-Euthanasia*
-Ranked 47th in freedom of the press
-Freedom overall (including economic, political and DI) 19th (16 of the nations ranked higher are European nations)
-''For the 2012 report, the countries that were ranked as having the lowest perceived levels of corruption were: Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Sweden, Singapore, Switzerland, Australia, Norway, Canada, Netherlands, Iceland and Luxembourg.''

*(''legal in some states'' is not a valid counter btw)

The people in my country are given the right to live a decent life. Oh my are we suffering. We're so not free.

The ''on our own'' part is the flaw in this major system, it just is.

''We can own guns, we're a free society'' No.
There are those who complain about the wind, there are those who hope the wind will change, --though the wise-- the wise adjust their sails.
Woeler
User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Posts: 4936
Joined: August 29th, 2011, 2:10 pm
Location: Always on the move
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 120

Re: Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Postby TheLionPrince » February 6th, 2013, 11:45 pm

DGFone, I tend to side more with you in this gun debate (except for the tyrannical government stuff) but I simply cannot allow you to post facts that are not true.

[quote="DGFone"]People kill a lot more people using anything but guns, even here in the US. You want to stop killing? Ban people. Guns are a very small factor in the number killed, just a very vocal minority.[/quote]
False. If you check the FBI's website and crunch the numbers, you see that firearms are used in 67.8% of homicides in 2011.
Image
TheLionPrince
Crown Prince of the Pridelands

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Posts: 10870
Joined: June 4th, 2011, 8:55 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Nickname(s): Chris, TLP
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 152

Re: Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Postby Azdgari » March 23rd, 2013, 5:59 am

What do you guys think of the proposed measures going through congress?
Guess the Member with Kitva Hyperlink: show
"Hates me
Nothing but facts
Male"

"...Woeler?"

"ya"
Azdgari
big, wide turns

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Posts: 1978
Joined: March 19th, 2010, 3:01 pm
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 114

Re: Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Postby Baya » March 23rd, 2013, 6:34 am

A few points before I leave:

1) All I see with gun laws is men having the right to flex their muscles. Guns are banned for general purpose in Canada and the U.K. Look at that! Gun violence is not even close to the ratio in the U.S!

2) The argument that we need guns or they win = absurd. Just because a few gangsters pick up some rifles does not automatically mean you have the right to buy a gun, even if you are legally and medically insane.

3) There is no such things as rights in the U.S. Go ask an african american in Detroit if he feels like he has rights, then come in here asserting that possessing an AK-47 to "defend yourself" is a right.

4) The legislation being passed through congress right now toughens regulation on getting guns as far as I know as well as limiting magazines.

5) Anyone who says they need an AK-47 to kill a deer ought to be thrown in prison for cruelty to animals.

6) The purpose of a knife is to cut vegetables, meat and fruits. The purpose of a gun is to maim and kill. You don't look at what objects are used for otherwise everything will and can be banned. You look at their intended purpose, and designate whether it is appropriate or not to limit it. Guns, even in self defense, are made to kill or maim. There is no argument to suggest that guns are made for any other purpose, except maybe hunting...but again, you don't need an AK-47 with a full magazine of ammunition to kill a deer.

7) Alot of Republicans are the ones screaming about their right to bear arms, yet they are totally against abortion. This doesn't make logical sense...keep something intended to kill, then use the concept of life as a sacred thing when it comes to unborn children... (George Carlin)

8) All I see is men trying to flex their muscles because they are otherwise powerless. On a psychological level, guns make people feel like they are more important or have more power than others that don't. Whether you know it or not, guns are just a psychological totem of boosting one's self confidence.

9) The only reason I have found that guns are still legal in the U.S, is because there is a huge industry for it. $$$ <--- If there was no money in it, the government would not even ask for permission...they'd just ban guns.

10) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sc ... ted_States). I know that the U.S is larger in population than Canada, but if you look carefully, the ratio is still much higher.

11) Having a gun on the argument of patriotism or nationalistic pride is absurd. If America is about democracy and freedom, why do you need guns at all? I don't want to hear "We have guns to protect us from the government". That is an excuse I hear flying around, to which I respond, the military has weapons that they have not even remotely released to the public...what government in their right mind would release weapons to the public that would give the public the same power as the military? Terrorist groups, fundamentalists and yes the insane would just rise up to start another civil war.

12) The insane are indeed at fault, as a gun is useless without a user, but why make it easy for the insane to get guns? That's just...irrational. It seems like the lives of children don't matter when it comes to regulating guns, but once again when it comes to abortion...life is sacred.

13) The "Joker" killing at a theater had weapons that were all legally bought and explosives that were all legally bought. Last I checked, he was considered criminally insane.
Gone for good.
Baya

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Posts: 1992
Joined: September 25th, 2009, 3:24 pm
Location: T-D
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 12

Re: Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

Postby TheLionPrince » April 22nd, 2013, 6:17 pm

Last Wednesday, the Senate (mostly controlled by Democrats) voted down Senator Feinstein's assault weapons ban. (sources)

Thoughts? Concern? Outrage?
Image
TheLionPrince
Crown Prince of the Pridelands

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Posts: 10870
Joined: June 4th, 2011, 8:55 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Nickname(s): Chris, TLP
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 152

PreviousNext

Return to The Den

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 175 guests